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Clutch won't disengage

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MrDon

MrDon

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The clutch in '76 Spit won't release. I've replaced the clutch, pressure plate, throw-out berring, master, and slave cylinders, checked the pivot point. I've also blead and reblead the system with a power bleeder. What am I missing? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
How is the thrust washer? We were told by a Brit-car mechanic that if the thrust washer is worn, depressing the clutch pedal can literally move the crank & flywheel instead of pushing the pressure plate.
 
I guess first you need to determine if the fork arm is moving the proper distance -- about 1/2" to 3/4" if it's like my MGB...
 
I have it in a European Car shop now. They are stumped, I suggested the Thrust Washer, they said the free play at the front of the crankshaft is within specs. They also say the fork is moving properly.

If I can't come up with a suggetion for them I'm in for a fight, they want a huge labor bill. I say they didn't fix what I brought it in for (clutch problem) so I don't owe them if they can't fix it. Will probably end up in court unless I can tell them what to do. Otherwise I either pay them for nothing or wait for the legal battle to get my Spit back.
 
I don't understand, di they do the clutch? If so what do you owe them if it isn't working. Even if they didn't do the clutch they only thing you owe them is some troubleshooting time. Maybe 3-4 hrs at most?

Does the action of the pedal feel ok, could the TO brg have slipped off the fork? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Good luck, keep us posted.
 
Don, I do not know what the actual problem is. However, you might have a good look at the splines on the input shaft if excessively worn,distorted or have burs on them it just may hang up the disk.___Fwiw---Keoke
 
I assume the shop looked at the flywheel too when everything was pulled - any problem with warped pressure plate or flywheel unevenness will get you.

I agree with the previous note - if the shop didn't fix it they need to think harder on what they charge. Especially when they don't know why they can't fix it.
 
Can you establish for certain what was replaced, i.e., do you / they have the old parts? Where did they get the new parts and of what manufacture are they? Were they new, or perhaps rebuilt? Does this shop normally work on Triumphs, and are they this stubborn with other customers?
 
I'm a little confused here. Did the clutch have trouble dis-engaging BEFORE you did all this work, or AFTER??? And, who did the work??? You or the garage it's at???
 
Hi Don,

Since you have a lot of new parts in there, there's a possibility that a new clutch kit had a wrong part in it or one of the other supplied parts is incorrect. For example, if the pressure plate or the throwout bearing were the wrong size and/or shape to fit with the other parts, it won't work together.

All too common with older cars, vendors might supply kits that are put together from various supplier sources, using "normalized" individual pieces (i.e., a Triumph, Saab and Volvo might all use the same clutch driven disk, which is not exactly the same as was original to one or the other or all three cars, but is a very close match and will do the job).

An item provided in a kit might look right to an installer, but not work. So, a simple slip-up at the vendor while pulling parts from the shelves to make up the kit and there can be problems.

I don't know Spit parts all that well, but as an example, my TR4 has a TR4A clutch in it. The throwout bearing and other parts had to be changed at the same time to make the smaller, lighter, more modern design clutch work. If a TO bearing for a TR4 were fitted with this clutch, it wouldn't work.

The best way to check for incorrect parts is to lay the old parts alongside the new ones and check them carefully against each other.

Hope this helps.
 
I rebuilt the engine and replaced all the clutch parts (I've rebuilt many engines and replaced many clutch's, but never on a triumph). Everything worked perfect...for a while. After a couple hundred miles the pedal goes all the way to the floor and the clutch doesn't release. After that the hydrolic system was replaced bled an bled Etc. Verified the fork is moving but still no release.

The shop is up to about 10 hours labor and they have no idea what the problem is. I'm sure I'll win in court, but I'd rather give them some guidance and get the thing fixed than begin a long involved legal process. In Colorado we have a Mechanics Lean law, which means I can't get my car back unless I pay them or resolve the issue in court.

This shop advertizes that they work on all British and European cars, that's why I went to them when I was stunped. Well I made a big mistake and didn't ask for references and now don't see any other Triumphs in their yard or garage.
 
Well, I have no idea, but I'll send another note. If you had a hydraulic failure, that should have been obvious from either a leaking master or leaking slave cylinder. That would point to an incomplete bleed on the system - I had that on a TR6 so it can happen. If the hydraulics weren't leaking all over, it sounds like something internal with the throwout lever.

Good luck!
 
Seems to me if those guys knew thier stuff like they should, they would'nt need 10 hours to figure it out.

They are the professionals, it's not your fault that they don't know what they are doing.

Every shop I've ever worked for, or dealt with had a flat rate half hour check out fee.

I can't imagine any "Professional" not being able to diagnose this in 30 minutes or less.

10 hours to me means one of two things,...either they are totally inept, or they are pulling a scam on you. Either way I'd look for another shop to do my repair work.

just my 2¢
 
Do they leave your car outside at night?

If so......Go Get It......And let them sue you.

Or go to the meanest bar in the area, buy a couple of rounds & recruit some big harry volunteers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Do they leave your car outside at night?

If so......Go Get It......And let them sue you.

Or go to the meanest bar in the area, buy a couple of rounds & recruit some big harry volunteers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Seems to me if those guys knew thier stuff like they should, they would'nt need 10 hours to figure it out....either they are totally inept, or they are pulling a scam on you. Either way I'd look for another shop to do my repair work.

[/ QUOTE ]I think I'd have to agree. I have an official Triumph Repair Time Schedule manual. Granted, it's for the older models, so you'll have to add some time for the fancier-trimmed interior on a later Spitfire. But the flat rate for "clutch assembly and/or plate. replace" is 5.5 hours. In other words, for 10 hours' worth of work they could have had the gearbox out and back in almost twice! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
 
Some quick thoughts -- Is the cross shaft bent in such a way that the bearings on the fork is slipping off the throw out when depressed, OR -- did the taper pin holding fork to the cross shaft come loose and fall off. Did you wire tie that?
 
Re: Clutch won't disengage SOLVED

Thanks to everyone for the input. problem resolved. There was a hairline crack in the release fork right where the pivot pin goes. Everything looked good but when pressure was applied the crack opened and the fork shifted causing the throwout bearing to bind. Finally took the fork out, put it in a vice and applied pressure which exposed the crack. Put in a new fork and things are working perfect. The garage discovered the problem after making several calls to other repair facilities.

The Garage stepped up and offered to cut their labor hours in half since they had so much trouble finding the problem. I accepted their offer and have my car back.
 
Re: Clutch won't disengage SOLVED

Fascinatingly bizarre problem. Glad they solved it and worked out a fair deal for everyone on the labor.

That's definitely one to file away under "It's very unusual; I've only seen it once, but you might want to check...."
 
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