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Hey Guys, I'm just 17 and somehow i got my hands on an old pretty beat up TR4A. I spent some time on it and got the engine to run. Then I reworked and replaced the Master cylinders and the slave cylinder for the clutch. The only problem was that i still had no clutch and could not get the car into gear. So i bought a clutch repair kit from Moss motors assuming that theres just no more clutch left. However, Before i dive into takin out the trans and such i wonder if anyone has any advice on how to go about it or any suggestions. After jacking it up and looking around for a while today, i wondered if i couldnt lift the transmission UP OUT THROUGH the car as opposed to dropping it down. If i dropped it down, id have to dissasemble the exhaust/muffler setup. The car has about 78000 miles on it and i have no idea if the clutch has been replaced or what. any advice would be appreciated. or if you wanna come by and help me that would be great hahahaha /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spam.gif
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TR4/4A Clutch Replacement on TR4A. need advice
- Thread starter Kammer
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Kurtis
Jedi Warrior
Offline
Welcome Kammer. I'm sure you'll receive lots of good advice here. Here’s my somewhat limited input:
When you say you have no clutch, do you mean you can't get it to disengage? If that's the case, you might try replacing the short piece of flexible hydraulic line that connects to the slave cylinder. I know this was a problem point in the clutch hydraulics with my TR6, though I've never had any problems with it on my TR4. Also, if it is a disengagement problem, the clutch may simply be stuck.
If it's actually slipping badly, it could be an adjustment issue. You might try shorting the pushrod assembly out of the slave cylinder (the forked piece at the end that connects to the clutch lever arm is threaded and should spin in or out with a jamb nut locking it in place).
If you do end up having to pull the transmission, it will have to come out the top (through the cockpit). It's actually not all that difficult. A couple of people can easily lift it out.
Good luck!
When you say you have no clutch, do you mean you can't get it to disengage? If that's the case, you might try replacing the short piece of flexible hydraulic line that connects to the slave cylinder. I know this was a problem point in the clutch hydraulics with my TR6, though I've never had any problems with it on my TR4. Also, if it is a disengagement problem, the clutch may simply be stuck.
If it's actually slipping badly, it could be an adjustment issue. You might try shorting the pushrod assembly out of the slave cylinder (the forked piece at the end that connects to the clutch lever arm is threaded and should spin in or out with a jamb nut locking it in place).
If you do end up having to pull the transmission, it will have to come out the top (through the cockpit). It's actually not all that difficult. A couple of people can easily lift it out.
Good luck!
jsneddon
Jedi Knight
Offline
If it's just stuck then start it in gear and give it some spirited full throttle / no throttle driving and braking with the clutch pedal engaged. That usually will break free the rust sticking the plate to the flywheel.
BUT PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
BUT PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
When you say you have no clutch, do you mean you can't get it to disengage? If that's the case, you might try replacing the short piece of flexible hydraulic line that connects to the slave cylinder. I know this was a problem point in the clutch hydraulics with my TR6, though I've never had any problems with it on my TR4. Also, if it is a disengagement problem, the clutch may simply be stuck.
If it's actually slipping badly, it could be an adjustment issue. You might try shorting the pushrod assembly out of the slave cylinder (the forked piece at the end that connects to the clutch lever arm is threaded and should spin in or out with a jamb nut locking it in place).
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Kurtis. I think that's right, it wont disengage. However, There is very good pressure in the pedal, and the slave seems to be functioning properly. However, conterary to what you said, i tried Making the pushrod assembly on the slave LONGER. was i supposed to shorten it? Also! heres something i noticed. I took the cover off of the drive shaft. when the car is in neutral and i spin the rear wheels, the Drive train spins. When i put it In gear and hold the clutch pedal down and spin the wheels the shaft DOESNT spin. shouldnt it spin when its in gear with the Clutch applied? Maybe it is just stuck. Let me know what you think. and Thanks!!
jsneddon - i think im going to try that tomorow. the more i think about it the more im convinced that the disk is just stuck! Thanks!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
When you say you have no clutch, do you mean you can't get it to disengage? If that's the case, you might try replacing the short piece of flexible hydraulic line that connects to the slave cylinder. I know this was a problem point in the clutch hydraulics with my TR6, though I've never had any problems with it on my TR4. Also, if it is a disengagement problem, the clutch may simply be stuck.
If it's actually slipping badly, it could be an adjustment issue. You might try shorting the pushrod assembly out of the slave cylinder (the forked piece at the end that connects to the clutch lever arm is threaded and should spin in or out with a jamb nut locking it in place).
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Kurtis. I think that's right, it wont disengage. However, There is very good pressure in the pedal, and the slave seems to be functioning properly. However, conterary to what you said, i tried Making the pushrod assembly on the slave LONGER. was i supposed to shorten it? Also! heres something i noticed. I took the cover off of the drive shaft. when the car is in neutral and i spin the rear wheels, the Drive train spins. When i put it In gear and hold the clutch pedal down and spin the wheels the shaft DOESNT spin. shouldnt it spin when its in gear with the Clutch applied? Maybe it is just stuck. Let me know what you think. and Thanks!!
jsneddon - i think im going to try that tomorow. the more i think about it the more im convinced that the disk is just stuck! Thanks!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Kurtis
Jedi Warrior
Offline
Kammer,
Does the pushrod actually move when you depress the clutch? I assume it does, since you stated that the slave cylinder seems to be functioning properly. Someone else here correct me if I'm wrong, but if the pushrod is moving (and pivoting the clutch lever arm), then it's likely not a hydraulic problem (unless the pivot arm is not moving sufficiently - I think mine moves maybe an inch(?) or less. It doesn't seem to take a lot.
It the clutch is stuck, I'm not sure if the pivot arm would move or not. As MD suggested, try pushing the car with it in gear and the clutch depressed first prior to the more drastic jack stand method. I’ve always been able to get one broke free by pushing.
When both wheels are free to spin, and the car is in neutral, I suspect both wheels would spin and the drive shaft would turn. However, if it’s in gear, the differential would slip, and only one wheel would spin (and the drive shaft would not spin). Obviously, your clutch is not disengaging for some reason. Check if you are getting good travel on the clutch lever arm (that the slave cylinder pushrod connects to) and report back. If you are, I’d guess it’s not a stuck clutch and perhaps something gone awry internally with the clutch.
Does the pushrod actually move when you depress the clutch? I assume it does, since you stated that the slave cylinder seems to be functioning properly. Someone else here correct me if I'm wrong, but if the pushrod is moving (and pivoting the clutch lever arm), then it's likely not a hydraulic problem (unless the pivot arm is not moving sufficiently - I think mine moves maybe an inch(?) or less. It doesn't seem to take a lot.
It the clutch is stuck, I'm not sure if the pivot arm would move or not. As MD suggested, try pushing the car with it in gear and the clutch depressed first prior to the more drastic jack stand method. I’ve always been able to get one broke free by pushing.
When both wheels are free to spin, and the car is in neutral, I suspect both wheels would spin and the drive shaft would turn. However, if it’s in gear, the differential would slip, and only one wheel would spin (and the drive shaft would not spin). Obviously, your clutch is not disengaging for some reason. Check if you are getting good travel on the clutch lever arm (that the slave cylinder pushrod connects to) and report back. If you are, I’d guess it’s not a stuck clutch and perhaps something gone awry internally with the clutch.
Hey guys. I think im going to try and do what MD said and get some buddies and start pushing the thing. Maybe ill luck out and the disk will break free. However, The arm on my slave does move about .5 - 1 inch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif So then its probably not that the clutch is stuck like Kurtis said. BUT! no harm in trying! Ill let you guys know what happens today! and Thanks for your help, you guys ROCK!
Here are some pics of the beauty hahahaha:
https://www.geocities.com/spadesoface20/Triumph2.jpg
https://www.geocities.com/spadesoface20/Triumph1.jpg
https://www.geocities.com/spadesoface20/Triumph4.jpg
Here are some pics of the beauty hahahaha:
https://www.geocities.com/spadesoface20/Triumph2.jpg
https://www.geocities.com/spadesoface20/Triumph1.jpg
https://www.geocities.com/spadesoface20/Triumph4.jpg
Kurtis
Jedi Warrior
Offline
Good luck Kammer. I hope I'm wrong (and it's just a stuck clutch disc). I'm just not sure if the arm would move in that case or not. Anyway, keep us posted. I think it's great to have a new TR owner within our midst... especially one working toward getting a TR back on the road!
Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Hi and welcome,
Hopefully you can get the clutch to release and start working properly just by rocking the car, as suggested.
You might take a look at a recent thread about clutches here on the forum... "Well I still have 3rd & 4th gear anyway!"
Be sure the clutch slave cylinder's clevis pin is in the center hole of the lever, not the top or bottom holes. All TRs should use the middle hole of the lever.
You should adjust in .100" of play at the pushrod. This insures the throwout bearing is fully released when the clutch pedal is out. The best way to adjust it is to first adjust to remove all play by hand at the lever, then use a feeler gauge under the adjusting nut to set the correct amount of play, turning the adjusting nut until there is .100" between it and the yoke (clevis). Then carefully turn the pushrod itself, without disturbing the adjusting nut that's on it, until the nut comes up against the yoke (clevis), and then snug up the adjusting nut a little to lock in the adjustment. This only needs to be done every 12K miles or once a year, normally.
To make your life a whole lot easier, I'd suggest you get hold of the TR4 Workshop Manual with TR4A supplement (part #510322). Also a TR4A Spare Parts Catalog is a very valuable resource with exploded views of parts and giving you an opportunity to check that the correct parts were installed in the past. (For example, a later clutch slave cylinder/master cylinder combination that is "self-adjusting" has very little room for error and can make for throwout bearing problems.)
One aspect of the TR4A that might be effecting the clutch and might be changed on your car is the release shaft bushing/lubrication arrangement. Later gearboxes were fitted with non-greasable and narrower bushings on either side of the bellhousing, where the shaft passes through.
It's easy to identify, if your shaft doesn't have grease zerks (or holes for them, if someone removed them) in each end, then it's the later type of bushing setup that is prone to wear because the bushings never get lubricated (look for lateral play at the shaft as a sign of bushing wear... play makes it difficult/impossible to adjust the clutch release mechanism properly).
*If* you end up pulling the gearbox (out through the cockpit, as already mentioned), it's very worthwhile to upgrade to the earlier style cross shaft drilled to use grease zerks, and to install the earlier, wider, greasable bushings in the bellhousing.
Have fun wrenching on your project!
Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L
Hopefully you can get the clutch to release and start working properly just by rocking the car, as suggested.
You might take a look at a recent thread about clutches here on the forum... "Well I still have 3rd & 4th gear anyway!"
Be sure the clutch slave cylinder's clevis pin is in the center hole of the lever, not the top or bottom holes. All TRs should use the middle hole of the lever.
You should adjust in .100" of play at the pushrod. This insures the throwout bearing is fully released when the clutch pedal is out. The best way to adjust it is to first adjust to remove all play by hand at the lever, then use a feeler gauge under the adjusting nut to set the correct amount of play, turning the adjusting nut until there is .100" between it and the yoke (clevis). Then carefully turn the pushrod itself, without disturbing the adjusting nut that's on it, until the nut comes up against the yoke (clevis), and then snug up the adjusting nut a little to lock in the adjustment. This only needs to be done every 12K miles or once a year, normally.
To make your life a whole lot easier, I'd suggest you get hold of the TR4 Workshop Manual with TR4A supplement (part #510322). Also a TR4A Spare Parts Catalog is a very valuable resource with exploded views of parts and giving you an opportunity to check that the correct parts were installed in the past. (For example, a later clutch slave cylinder/master cylinder combination that is "self-adjusting" has very little room for error and can make for throwout bearing problems.)
One aspect of the TR4A that might be effecting the clutch and might be changed on your car is the release shaft bushing/lubrication arrangement. Later gearboxes were fitted with non-greasable and narrower bushings on either side of the bellhousing, where the shaft passes through.
It's easy to identify, if your shaft doesn't have grease zerks (or holes for them, if someone removed them) in each end, then it's the later type of bushing setup that is prone to wear because the bushings never get lubricated (look for lateral play at the shaft as a sign of bushing wear... play makes it difficult/impossible to adjust the clutch release mechanism properly).
*If* you end up pulling the gearbox (out through the cockpit, as already mentioned), it's very worthwhile to upgrade to the earlier style cross shaft drilled to use grease zerks, and to install the earlier, wider, greasable bushings in the bellhousing.
Have fun wrenching on your project!
Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L
Hey guys! Finally got a chance to try out some of your advice today.
I started by having a few of us push the car while it was Turned off, in gear, and with the cluch pushed in. after a while of jerky pushing i tried to start the car and get it in gear.
It wouldnt go all the way in gear, when i pushed up on the stick, the car would slooowly inch forward.
I thought maybe i was on to something since it felt to me the car wanted to get in gear.
Then i tried towing it with the clutch in too. That didnt work either. it just turned the engine alot. I was a little bit confused after the day was over.
Then i realized that i never tried any of these while the care was running...was i supposed to or would it had not made a difference either way? Should i try again tomorow with the engine running or what? Or does anyone think its just time to yank the tranny and see what the REAL deal is...? Im dying for more input you guys are great! let me know!
I started by having a few of us push the car while it was Turned off, in gear, and with the cluch pushed in. after a while of jerky pushing i tried to start the car and get it in gear.
It wouldnt go all the way in gear, when i pushed up on the stick, the car would slooowly inch forward.
I thought maybe i was on to something since it felt to me the car wanted to get in gear.
Then i tried towing it with the clutch in too. That didnt work either. it just turned the engine alot. I was a little bit confused after the day was over.
Then i realized that i never tried any of these while the care was running...was i supposed to or would it had not made a difference either way? Should i try again tomorow with the engine running or what? Or does anyone think its just time to yank the tranny and see what the REAL deal is...? Im dying for more input you guys are great! let me know!
Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Hi,
I'd *not* suggest running the engine with the clutch (probably) or the gearbox (possibly) locked up like that. Too much chance of breaking something expensive in the engine, gearbox or both.
If it were me, I'd get the gearbox out to see what's up and identify the problem.
Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L
I'd *not* suggest running the engine with the clutch (probably) or the gearbox (possibly) locked up like that. Too much chance of breaking something expensive in the engine, gearbox or both.
If it were me, I'd get the gearbox out to see what's up and identify the problem.
Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L