Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

[PAUL161]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

It's a shame that I have to say this, but there are quite a few aircraft out there that look great, but some of them have been slightly abused as far as proper maintenance and records are concerned. A broken crank is rare, but if it was X-rayed at the last major overhaul, it's possible a fracture might have been picked up and the crank trashed. Engine rebuilds and maintenance should only be done by a qualified shop with a good reputation, not owners who are not certified mechanics. I've even seen log books that have been doctored to make an engine look like it has more time left on it before overhaul. Thank God that's also rare! One of my sons has a FAA certified repair station, who also does airliner work and some of the work that has been brought in to him, (after it was worked on by another shop), is amazing. Oil leaks, reused "O" rings, abnormal vibrations, dropped valve seats, compression ratios that are way off and the list goes on. As the old saying goes, "Let the buyer beware", on an aircraft, that could be the difference between life and death. It's amazing what some people are willing to fly and then sell it to someone else with hidden issues. Scary!

 

[Twosheds]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Engine rebuilds and maintenance should only be done by a qualified shop with a good reputation, not owners who are not certified mechanics.

Amen to that!

I am sick and tired of pilots who think they can perform unsupervised maintenance other than preventive maintenance without having their A&P ticket!

What makes them think that they are as skilled and knowledgable as someone who has had 2000 hours of training and passed several tests?

They do unsupervised maintenance and then try to get an A&P to "sign off" their work who did not oversee them doing it! Right, like the A&P is going to risk losing his livelihood so the cheap pilot can save some money, not to mention risking his life. Grrr...

Pilots used to come in all the time to borrow tools to do unsupervised maintenance. They want me to aid and abet their illegal activity? Such gall!

Don't get me started.

 

[TRDejaVu]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

As a fellow A&P, and previous holder of UK and Canadian AME licenses, I agree.

I had to do a 4 year apprenticeship in the olde country, before being allowed to even sign a work order for the oil change I had just done on our Boeings. That then had to be stamped by an Inspector. Then we had to build up real world experience, take further courses and finally get an Aircraft Maintenance Engineers license. Our type courses were evil, but you knew the aircraft backwards once you were done. Our DC10 CF6 engine course required you to be able to fully explain how the MEC (Main Engine Control) worked to a QA tester. It was basically a mechanical computer and the 3D cam was a bugger to properly explain.

"Luxury, we had it tough ... and you try and tell the young people that today..."

 

[aeronca65t]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Agreed....mostly.

Our local A&P is a wonderful fellow with 50+ years of experience. But he has plenty of customers and was looking to retire (not taking on new customers), forcing me to look elsewhere.

As you guys well know, if you've ever hung around small airports (and I'm sure you have) there are always a few "ringers". It happens in every profession.

For example, when I was flying my Airknocker and the carb float stuck (see earlier in this thread), I was flying it back from its annual. Simple fix...the float was set too high, but gee wizz. I mean it was set right *before* he got it.
The previous year, a different A&P had re-timed the engine so that it was about 15 degrees off.

One of my students had his A&P from the military. Later he got a job with one of the A&Ps mentioned above. Then he came back and told me stories that would make any of you cringe.

Since then I've met A&Ps who are great (and I fully understand that fixing a really old plane can be a task in itself). From my experience, you have to ask around and see who the "good" ones are.....certified or not, not all the A&Ps I've met are "good".

By the way, I think the new Sport Pilot Repairmans Cert may be a good thing. It'll be interesting to watch the data on that.

 

[Twosheds]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

I'm not saying that all A&Ps are "good" and that all pilots are "bad", Nial.

I am saying that it is always a violation for pilots (or other non-certificated persons) to perform unsupervised maintenance other than preventive maintenance even if they perform that maintenance correctly.

A&Ps are people, and, as such, some are crooked. Or make mistakes.

I taught Preventive Maintenance for Pilots. Most were AOPA employees. One thing I stressed to them: "Do not put your A&P on the spot by asking him/her to "sign off" something you did that he/she did not supervise. An A&P works long and hard to obtain the certificate and needs it to make a living."

 

[aeronca65t]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Yep, John, I agree with you that asking for an A&P to "sign off" on an unsupervised repair is a really bad idea.

 

[PAUL161]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

On another note, home builts! Even though it seems like some of the home built, non certified stuff is getting better in design (and I'm not talking about those special built high dollar racing craft that are built by qualified people), in my opinion, the regs on building them should be a lot stiffer. Too many of them are using power plants that weren't designed for aviation and to me, should not be allowed. Everything from lawn mower/chain saw engines to automobile engines of one type or another, that are worked on and modified by a lot of people who think if they can assemble a bicycle, they can build an airplane. The crash list is rising as time goes on. Ok, some say, hey, if the guy wants to put his life in danger and kill him self, well, it's his life. But, the way I look at it is, he's up there taking up air space where I am with my family or other folks who are flying certified aircraft along with the proper tickets in their pockets and he's up there without a clue of what's going on, flying in restricted areas at the wrong altitudes concerning flight directions, etc. I wish the FAA never relaxed the regulations to allow this. Money, it's all about money. I know my way of thinking might sound unfair to those who are on limited funds, but I look at it from a safety standpoint and believe me, there's some real junk flying around up there, some being flown by very unqualified people. I'd like to own a Rolls Royce, (well, not really) and I always wanted to get into formula racing, but I could never afford it, same should apply to aviation, if you can't afford to do it properly, stay away from it! Sorry for running off, but, that's just me.

 

[GaryBeu]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Paul...you are absolutely correct on the homebuilts. When Carla and I owned our flight school/air taxi we had plenty of people wanting us to teach them in their homebuilt airplanes AND Rotorway helicopters. We never had the guts to try it! The only "homebuilt" I ever flew was built by an A&P/A.I. It was a single hole open cockpit Baby Great Lakes biplane. Incredible airplane and I put 40-50 hours in it. Great fun but it took quite a bit of highspeed taxi practise before I had the nerve to "pour the whip" to it and take off.

 

[Twosheds]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

I thought you can't use an Experimental Category aircraft for flight instruction anyway.

 

[GaryBeu]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

These were all guys who (believe it or not) already had a pilot certificate and wanted us to "check them out" or "go fly this helicopter I built and tell me what you think". We always told them "I don't think so"!!

I just noticed that I said in my previous post "A&P/A.I."...of course I meant I.A. My wife and I also had a dairy farm for 15 years and my brain sometimes crosswires...we used to A.I. (artificially inseminate) our cows. I also sometimes call the Future Farmers of America the FAA!!!

 

[aerog]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Yep, John, I agree with you that asking for an A&P to "sign off" on an unsupervised repair is a really bad idea.

That's why you don't ask them to sign it off. And why you don't tell them about it... and why you don't tell the internet world you did it so they can't lecture you about legalities :wink:

 

[Twosheds]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Geez, Aerog, with all your experience, you ought to get your A&P.

 

[PAUL161]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

These were all guys who (believe it or not) already had a pilot certificate and wanted us to "check them out" or "go fly this helicopter I built and tell me what you think". We always told them "I don't think so"!!

I just noticed that I said in my previous post "A&P/A.I."...of course I meant I.A. My wife and I also had a dairy farm for 15 years and my brain sometimes crosswires...we used to A.I. (artificially inseminate) our cows. I also sometimes call the Future Farmers of America the FAA!!!

I never mentioned it before, but I have a commercial helicopter license. I've done cable lifting, passenger hauling in NYC, etc and also been in one that crashed and was cut completely in half. We both walked away with minor injuries, LUCKY! Good for you on not putting yourself in a possibly dangerous situation. Our Bell 206 crashed because of a fractured rotor control. After a long legal battle in court, it was proved to be fact and Bell lost their bid to make it pilot error. This is another reason to keep excellent records on any aircraft. This was a certified Bell Jet Ranger that was properly maintained and Bell had to cough up a new 1/2 million dollar aircraft to replace it. Needless to say, they weren't very happy to do so. As far as flying someones home built helo, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. I've seen people killed in homebuilts, one in a gyro copter, was right in front of his wife and children. How sad. The only home built I've flown, was a Pitts Special, put together in a certified shop with certified mechanics. It was a blast to fly as my old Stearman was big and slow compared to the Pitts. Set up for full aerobatics with invert system and smoke, I swear, it would climb straight up. It was also very hot on landings and would get your attention real quick if you screwed up somewhat. Not an aircraft for a novice. PJ

 

[GaryBeu]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Look up on the "net" the Baby Great Lakes I was flying...talk about landings!! It's considerably smaller and shorter than the Pitts. A friend of mine flew airshows in a Pitts and couldn't get into the Baby. Some fun.

 

[aeronca65t]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Yep, John, I agree with you that asking for an A&P to "sign off" on an unsupervised repair is a really bad idea.

That's why you don't ask them to sign it off. And why you don't tell them about it... and why you don't tell the internet world you did it so they can't lecture you about legalities :wink:

+1

We are talking hypotheticals, right? :wink:

I don't check my tire pressures without a sign-off....no sir-ee.

 

[aerog]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Of course.

Don't forget to get your new plastic license if you haven't done it already. The new one will have an "english language" endorsement on it. That's so if you get ramp-checked they'll know you can speak English without talking to you. I guess. :laugh:

 

[PAUL161]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Of course.
The new one will have an "english language" endorsement on it. That's so if you get ramp-checked they'll know you can speak English without talking to you. I guess. :laugh:

I think that's on there in case you move to Miami, Texas or San Diego!

 

[aerog]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

Of course.
The new one will have an "english language" endorsement on it. That's so if you get ramp-checked they'll know you can speak English without talking to you. I guess. :laugh:

I think that's on there in case you move to Miami, Texas or San Diego!

Boy you got THAT right!

I know why it's really there, I just think it's amusing to think "what if it wasn't"

 

[donbmw]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

If anyone is holding thier paper certificate you need to get a new replacement Plastic certificated. The end of March of this year the paper certificated will not be a valide certificate anymore. You can go the FAA web site to get your new certificate.

Don

 

[aerog]

Re: Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger

...and here's a hint that they don't make real obvious in some places: the "replacement" plastic card is $2, but if your existing paper license uses your SS number you can get the <span style="font-style: italic">new</span> plastic one for free if you tell the system you're just asking to change your number from your SS number.