Bronze Leaf Spring bushings

[prb51]

There's a guy on Ebay selling bronze leaf spring bushings with delrin spacers for the TR3.
Anyone have any experience with this kind of set up? He mentions Kas's name and has a 'testimonial' that makes sense.

 

[Moseso]

I won't know how they ride until next summer, so I can't report on that yet. He's a pretty interesting cat though. He races a TR4 and makes a number of high-perf parts, mostly marketed through TRF. His website is https://www.the-vintage-racer.com/

I got his rocker shaft spacers on ebay and he accidentally sent the rear spring kit instead. When I called to point out the error, he offered me a screamin' price to keep them instead of shipping 'em back. I said, "What the heck. I'll try 'em." They've got to be stiffer (horizontal displacement) than the urethane bushes -- not to mention the stock rubber ones. That can't hurt.

 

[prb51]

Thanks for the web link, can't have enough of those.
I just rebuilt my front end and it was really not needing it based upon inspection of the wear parts so I'm sure the rear spring bushings are in pretty good shape too but I'd like to decrease the 3 hop if poss.
When will you be on the road?

 

[martx-5]

I just changed the bushings in my leaf springs this Saturday. I really considered going with the upgraded bushings, as I see them all the time on E-Bay. I decided to put back the original style rubber pieces. I was quite surprised when I took the old ones out, as they weren't worn very much. The holes in the center where the shackle goes was a bit ovaled out, but not that much. I expected to see alot worse. I also replaced the front ones...needed a press to change those, and they probably would have been fine just leaving them. BTW, the body was off, so I didn't have to mess with that bolt that goes through the frame. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Moseso]

...but I'd like to decrease the 3 hop if poss.
When will you be on the road?

So would I! I'm putting in uprated springs front & rear, and a sway bar on the front.

ETA of the first road test is probably not til late summer 2008. I've still got a LOT of work to do. I also need to put a little more money into the TR3 rehabilitation account before it'll drive. I'm kinda tapped-out as of today.

 

[prb51]

Art,
I can't see changing things out presently, but I might try the bronze/delrin thing as I've found that just slight changes like that can really effect input.

Mo,
What kind of 'uprated' springs are you going to use? I'm happy with the stock front (better shocks needed though- spax I think). I'll also get a set of bias ply tires, I miss hanging the tail out.

 

[Gordo]

Mo,

Whos/what springs are you using?

I started a thread on this but it's not getting much attention. I'd like to get an idea of what people are using.

I've seen those rear bushings and may consider them, but I'm wondering about how much stiffer the ride would be.

Gordo

 

[Moseso]

Fronts: "mild competition" obtained from TRF. Since, I have heard that the actual source of those is TSI. They might be a little cheaper direct from him.

Rears: Moss #851-180. Not the prettiest parts I have ever seen, but they have an extra main leaf and ARE stiffer. They were on sale all this last month. Sorry to report that the sale is ended.

I plan to install the Addco 3/4" front sway bar too. They make a rear bar as well, but the consensus seems to be that it's a bad idea.

The TR sidestep: The rear axle is sitting OVER the frame. When the car leans in a curve, the frame rises and picks the inside wheel up off the ground! Often, the car lurches a bit and the wheel drops back down. Also, sometimes, this is the beginning of a full-on spinout. My goal is to minimize body roll. If I wind up with a somewhat stiffer ride, so be it.

As I said, it will be a while before I can report on how this all turns out -- but I will! When I found this place a few months ago, I did some searching through past posts. I believe I read some that are a source of the advice not to use a rear sway bar. There is some previous talk on TR3 suspension back there, if you look for it.

 

[TR3driver]

For what little it's worth, I had a rear bar on TS39781LO, and it took first in class in the only autox I ever entered it in (VTR 2000). Ok, I got in the wrong class, should have been in "modified" where I would only have taken 2nd place. But still, it didn't handle all that bad (especially considering I drove 1000 miles each way to that event and the only change I made for the track was to empty out the trunk & spare tire well; plus reef down a little on the front sway bar for my 3rd run).

The stock rear suspension is already too stiff for street driving, IMO, and has a tendency to skip over rough roads. I sure wouldn't want mine any stiffer. The sway bar is a way to add roll stiffness without more vertical stiffness; and like any other tuning device, needs to be balanced against other changes.

Besides, I really hate that sudden jerk when the axle hits the frame !

 

[PeterK]

There's basically two characteristic behaviors that my rear leaf springs exhibit. I'm not the expert and I'm sure someone will chime in to help explain things.

There's the famous twitch or hop as the rear of the springs leans sideways in the shackles as you make your turn. The bronze/delrin(ARE) SS/bronze(BFE) solutions minimize the bushing slop and keep the rear more in-line with the front. So then, the snap to oversteer (aka. YEE HAAA!) is a bit more predictable, gentle and controlable.

Second is that the spring can wrap under hard accelleration or braking; in this case, the spring deflects forward or backwards as the spring mount is twisted by the rear end. See https://www.tractionmaster.com/ for info on their solution. Their product keeps the distance from the chassis and differential, but still allowing up and down movement.

They (TM) used to make a kit for the TRs that was popular and still do make a kit for the Tiger. I happen to have an original TR set-up and have measured photos of the mounting if interested here:
https://mysite.verizon.net/kentech0822/triumph/trackbars/rear_bracket_side.jpg
https://mysite.verizon.net/kentech0822/triumph/trackbars/rear_bracket_back.jpg
https://mysite.verizon.net/kentech0822/triumph/trackbars/rear_bracket_top.jpg

The TR setup mounts under the spring plate using longer u-bolts over the axle. The rear mounting plate has two shackle legs to which a tube with a tee fitting on each end mounts. The front used a simple section of angle that was welded to the the front of the chassis. The bar is 19-1/2" overall and originally used rubber bushings and 5/8" bolts, washers and thin nylocs. I changed mine to poly ss sleeved 9/16" but still haven't installed it.

I noticed that the Tiger LAT-5 bar used this setup but later modified to a LAT-6 configuration that clamps of the springs instead of frame mounts. I've toyed with making a setup with rose/heim joints - might be better and be adjustable???

 

[prb51]

I agree that I wouldn't want stiffer springs in the rear, I like my teeth in their sockets.
That web site looks like the answer though, thanks Peter, and nice 'parts' too.
I may contact the vendor to see if they'd remake those kits if folks were interested.

 

[YankeeTR]

You will have hard time contolling body roll simply with stiffer rear springs...an anti-roll bar is the only way to regulate body roll.

Bronze bushings were used years ago in circle track cars to replace rubber in all of the suspension parts front and rear...makes for a bone-shattering ride...I used them for years in my stock cars. Just adding them to the front spring eye isn't a big deal but I'd sooner have a more modern material in there...IMHO.

 

[swift6]

Actually, stiffer springs do reduce body roll by increasing roll resistance. So does lowering the cars roll center. The anti-roll bar helps reduce body roll without increasing ride stiffness.

 

[prb51]

Peter,
They'll still make them for TR3's etc. Note his response.
I sent him the forum address so he'd be aware of the present market. I asked what the price would be in my response.

Hi Pat,

We can make the Bolt-on Traction-Masters for the TR 3. We would need the shock plate specs from your car.

Our website has a diagram that helps us figure out the dimensions needed. https://tractionmaster.com/wksheet.html

A photo of a Bolt-on Traction-Master is: Tractionmaster.com Its the second bar from the top.

We haven't made those bars in over 35 years! Glad to see those cars are still out there.