British Heritage Certificates

[BJ8Healeys]

Another story: a guy in Arizona tried to get his car registered. The DMV told him there was already a car with that VIN registered in Wisconsin and refused to register the car until HE got that corrected. He had the real car, but the lady in Wisconsin didn't see that it was her problem to correct.

 

[BJ8Healeys]

The "VIN" and "Car Number" are the same thing. When I say "chassis number" I mean the number of the car when the VIN prefix and suffix is deleted: VIN or Car Number = HBJ8U/42355G; Chassis number = 42355.

 

[Healey Nut]

I think that, at least outside of the Corvette world, "numbers matching" means that they match the build records - they match the car's "birth certificate" - not that the chassis and engine numbers are the same number.

However, with later Healey 100s the numbers kinda match. For example, my BN2 is chassis number ("Car No.") BN2L230614, and the engine is number 1B230614M.

I'm waiting to see an engine ID plate reading "ORIGINAL ENGINE," and then the owner could claim that yes, it is unequivocally the original engine ... see? (However, I doubt Clarke Spares would make one like that for you ... but a trophy shop would likely to be quite happy to accommodate you with this idea.)

I’m just going to get one made that says “matching numbers“ put it on the firewall and remove all doubt

 

[Rob Glasgow]

Healey nut. Perfect solution. I’m going to post that I’m perfect. Without any visible damage. That should make me more marketable.

 

[mgtf328]

I've never worried about whether the numbers match on my BJ8 I suppose that I never thought they would on a car over 50 years old. As a matter of interest I thought I'd check it out but I can't see any numbers on the engine. Can someone please tell me where to look for these numbers? There's a plate on the firewall but as you say that can easily be faked.

AJ

 

[BJ8Healeys]

The engine serial number for 3000s is here.

 

[Healey Nut]

I've never worried about whether the numbers match on my BJ8 I suppose that I never thought they would on a car over 50 years old. As a matter of interest I thought I'd check it out but I can't see any numbers on the engine. Can someone please tell me where to look for these numbers? There's a plate on the firewall but as you say that can easily be faked.

AJ

Carburetor side of the engine , front end ,down where the block meets the sump .

 

[Jack T]

I think the numbers matching insanity started when muscle cars began trading for big bucks. People were not amused to learn that the 'original' GTO they just bought began life as a 6 cylinder Tempest.

 

[BJ8Healeys]

I've never worried about whether the numbers match on my BJ8 I suppose that I never thought they would on a car over 50 years old. As a matter of interest I thought I'd check it out but I can't see any numbers on the engine. Can someone please tell me where to look for these numbers? There's a plate on the firewall but as you say that can easily be faked.

AJ

All the plates on a BJ8 can be "faked"; but if you've seen as many as I have, the fakes usually provide clues that they are not original. Having a large file of photos of original plates helps to identify the better fakes.

 

[tahoe healey]

I saw no mention of the body parts matching numbers. If you bonnet, frame and boot lid numbers don't match it may mean the car had been in an accident and that would matter to me.

 

[BJ8Healeys]

During body manufacture and assembly at Jensen Motors, a number was stamped in three places:
on the fixed part of the bonnet latch, just in front of the radiator (the number faces the radiator).
on the driver's side (in reference to LHD cars) bonnet flange where the hinge is bolted.
on the underside of the boot lid where the prop rod attaches.

The number was typically a letter, followed by one, two, or three numerical digits. The purpose was to mark the parts that were fitted and adjusted at Jensen to ensure that the parts stayed with the car during later disassembly/reassembly operations at BMC in Abingdon (such as removal of the bonnet to install the engine). Some cars have been found with a number written in chalk or grease pencil on the inside of the driver's door, on the fixed part of the gearbox/driveshaft tunnel, and sometimes on the glovebox fiberboard or back of the wood fascia. These correspond in most instances to the "Jensen number" on the three parts.

The BJ8 Registry has been trying to document these numbers on as many cars as possible. Having them documented can lead to insights into how the cars were built. Data collected so far for about 200 BJ8s shows that there is a pattern to the numbers that track the body and chassis numbers -- closer to the body numbers.
To support this study and improve its conclusions, it is desirable to document the numbers on as many cars as possible. All BJ8 owners are requested to report the numbers as found on their cars to the BJ8 Registry (sbyers@ec.rr.com).

Thanks!

 

[jimmyr]

For the early Ferrari collectors and auctions, number matching is an important part of the pricing. Also there are exceptions, the Ferrari factory can now recreate new engines and they are now accepted as numbers matching - if the factory does the $$$$$ restoration.

 

[pan]

rossco, you mentioned one of my most-hated phrases: "numbers match[ing]."

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I always think about all of the very, very many Healeys whose engine lost its number plate somewhere along the line, but it has been replaced by one from Clarke Spares. The problem is, no matter what engine is in the car now, it can have the "right number" on the engine ID plate. In that way the engine really is "matching" numbers, even though it's a replacement block.

I have mocked this "matching numbers culture" with a fun little exercise concerning one of my Sprites. It's a Bugeye and so the original engine was, of course, a 948cc, but like most Bugeyes it had a 1275 "retro-planted" (I just made that up). The 1275 didn't have a number plate on it at all, so I got one with the correct number for the original and long-gone 948 and put it on the 1275. I may have the only numbers-matching 1275cc Bugeye in the world.

Hi Reid, Although my 100 still has its original engine, I am, like you not a fan of the emphasis placed on "matching numbers". Here in Australia, most State authorities required that a car's engine number was stamped directly into the cast iron block, instead of on a riveted plate. My car was registered in Victoria in 1955 and like other Victorian registered cars, has the letter H added to the 1B prefix. Often, if the original engine number was lost, a Police Number was issued. These started with the letter P followed by several digits, then a letter indicating the State of issue i.e. V for Victoria, N for NSW and Q for Queensland. Cars with these numbers probably have their original engines but that can't be proved because the numbers do not "match".