Brake Lines for Bugsy - What do I need for a Flaring Tool / Rear Discs for Bugsy

[Jim_Gruber]

So while hooking up the OEM LF Brake Lines on Bugsy last night I got the connector aligned and started to thread on my new Stainless Flex Brake lines. All threaded on well until I got to the end and I could see the brake line catch and begin to twist. I know that can't be right and safe so now in the interest of safety, i.e. my own life have decided I don't want to trust 60 y.o. brake lines.

So I have a "Professional Flaring Tool" that I used to make and flare some brake lines ages ago for Bugsy I. I would plan to use the OEM Connectors, cleaned up of course on some nice 3/16", it appears aluminized brake line. But will this "Generic" Flaring Tool work on Bugsy. All it has are holes for multiple sizes of tubing and a simple V shaped flare. No Single bubble, double bubble. 37 degree flares or any of the fancy stuff. The OEM Brake Lines appear to be a simple bubble and that's it. I have a tubing bender and the spring thingy for bending, and a tubing cutter, so I think I'm set there. So tell me what is recommended for a BE. FedHill IIRC sells brake pipe, recommendations of brake line to go all the way to the back - How long a piece of tubing is needed. Ideally someone can supply a list of i.e.

2 - 36" Lengths ... of 3/16" tubing

More importantly, Steering Rack is in and LF Suspension is assembled, I'm guessing I need to pull the rack out in order to fit that brake pipe down there neatly and with nice smooth bends. Need so recommendations from someone who has BTDT.

Also Trevor, I will be using that Speedway Motors Proportioning Valve . You mentioned the need for a 37 degree Flaring Tool for the AN-3 Fittings. PM me with your number. I want to discuss exactly how you set things up . Thanks.

 

[nomad]

Jim, I know what tool you are talking about and I would say, no it won't work. I bought cupro nickel line from Fed Hill and rented their tool to re-plumb my Lotus and I would recommend them. Their tool works flawlessly and gives you the double crimp end and bubble end that are stock on British brake plumbing. As you mentioned its your life!!

Kurt.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

OK. bubble flares on the MC, and to the junction block. Double flare to the brake hoses themselves. If you add in 37 JIC (AN) fittings ... you need three flaring tools to get the job done. You can rent cheap ones from autozone for everything except the 37 degree flares.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Jim ... I sent you a PM with my phone number. Please do call me because I think I have discovered an issue with the setup you are trying to achieve. Not a show stopper, but I do not want you to have to redo something.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Tomorrow pm Trevor.Thanks.

 

[markberry]

I just bought the copper/nickel replacement lines from Moss. They worked great. Each line is cut and flared with new hardware installed. I made a tubing straightener and straightened all the lines first, then used the originals as a template to bend the new ones.

 

[Keith_M]

I second Mark's comments. After investigating the difficulty and expense of getting a tool to make good flares, I used the replacement lines from Moss, and they worked well. I have disc brakes and later model rear brakes on my bugeye, and I was able to make the precut lines work.
Keith

 

[Rhodyspit75]

Keith I plan on using the Moss set also with the same setup as you have. I noticed there were I think 5 choices of years to choose from. Did you use the lines for the bugeye?

Thanks, Ernie

 

[Keith_M]

Keith I plan on using the Moss set also with the same setup as you have. I noticed there were I think 5 choices of years to choose from. Did you use the lines for the bugeye?

Thanks, Ernie

I used the set for 1963-67. Moss part number 184-028. I have disc brakes and the later model rear brakes (and back plate). They bend very easily, but I bought a cheap tubing bender that came in very handy for some of the tight bends.

Keith

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Guys after a number of "gotchas" that have come up. I decided to remain with Spridget PreCut Lines and go with Later Backing Plates and Rear Drums. I still have the Creative Spridgets Adapters as well as .20MM Spacer for a BE but there are complications when used with a BE Single Line MC that I wasn't aware of. Time to stop Fettling and keep on assembling Bugsy's Brakes. New Brake Pipes will be here tomorrow. Yeah.

 

[leecreek]

Guys after a number of "gotchas" that have come up. I decided to remain with Spridget PreCut Lines and go with Later Backing Plates and Rear Drums. I still have the Creative Spridgets Adapters as well as .20MM Spacer for a BE but there are complications when used with a BE Single Line MC that I wasn't aware of. Time to stop Fettling and keep on assembling Bugsy's Brakes. New Brake Pipes will be here tomorrow. Yeah.

Hi Jim
Any elaboration on the gotchas and complications for the disc brake set up? As i installed mine last summer i was wondering if there was something I should be aware of?

Thanks

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Lee, which master cylinder are you using, and what proportioning valve? Are your front brakes stock?

The issues jim mentioned revolve around using a single line brake MC and potential proportioning problems.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Trevor covers it all. I decided as well that I need to focus on getting driving by my goal of the end of April and the needed tasks to be done between now and than and the time I have available to work on Bugsy. So with an eye on Project Time Management and Resource Availability i.e. Me, I decided to keep things simple and stick with upgraded Rear Drums. Not to say I won't go with Disc later on, I have the adapter plates and the 20MM Spacers for a BE in hand. For right now I need to finish Front Suspension build, Pull the Rear End and add upgraded backing plates and Slave Cylinders, swap out to a 3.9 pumpkin, get springs apart and repainted, and install new bushings. That along with a Front Tilt Kit by the end of April says I need to simplify. This working Full Time at age 66 is impacting my BE Restoration Productivity Time. Once all of that is done there is the 1,326 and 5 speed, GR Starter, Alternator, and a switch to Negative Ground to be sorted to get ready for an install late Summer before I pull it apart for OEW Paint over the Winter.

 

[leecreek]

Lee, which master cylinder are you using, and what proportioning valve? Are your front brakes stock?

The issues jim mentioned revolve around using a single line brake MC and potential proportioning problems.

Thanks for the reply. The Bugeye has a 3/4 inch stock style master, Wilwood proportioning valve from Summit, and the fronts were installed in the 74' fix-it before my run to Maine and Back to L.A. Donor car unknown now......

Thanks

 

[leecreek]

Trevor covers it all. I decided as well that I need to focus on getting driving by my goal of the end of April and the needed tasks to be done between now and than and the time I have available to work on Bugsy. So with an eye on Project Time Management and Resource Availability i.e. Me, I decided to keep things simple and stick with upgraded Rear Drums. Not to say I won't go with Disc later on, I have the adapter plates and the 20MM Spacers for a BE in hand. For right now I need to finish Front Suspension build, Pull the Rear End and add upgraded backing plates and Slave Cylinders, swap out to a 3.9 pumpkin, get springs apart and repainted, and install new bushings. That along with a Front Tilt Kit by the end of April says I need to simplify. This working Full Time at age 66 is impacting my BE Restoration Productivity Time. Once all of that is done there is the 1,326 and 5 speed, GR Starter, Alternator, and a switch to Negative Ground to be sorted to get ready for an install late Summer before I pull it apart for OEW Paint over the Winter.

Hi Jim, One thing sor sure here it took ten times the time to round the stuff u then it did to put it on. IMHO it would be so easy to do with the rear axle out. But that is keeping with my time line..not yours.. Good luck on getting it done either way. Time passes so fast now.

Thanks

 

[Trevor Jessie]

OK Lee, That is the setup that I have installed. But before that I tried the detrol flow valve and it did not work. I just tested mine with the wilwood proportioning valve today, but didn't get a chance to finish the testing. I have the valve turned all the way out at the moment. How many turns in (clockwise) did you go before you felt the rear was contributing without locking prematurely.

 

[BlueMax]

I'm using the Wilwood proportioning valve, I have the bias 70% to the front. Its in front of the coil.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

How did you get that 70% figure? Is that 70% of the pressure to the front measured with gauges? Or did you have the car tested on a brake dyno?

 

[BlueMax]

My method was quite simple. I determined the number of turns from full open to full closed. Then I went and made brake test and adjusted the valve until rear brakes lock. I then opened it one more turn which would not allow the rears to lock. Each car will be different based on the friction material, rotor size, type of calipers, type of master cylinders size, tires. The concept is keeping the rear end from swapping ends on you. But, also remember that if you drive the car in the wet that you'll need less bias to the rear. Sure would love to see one of those brake dyno's!!

 

[Trevor Jessie]

I do not know if brake dynos are common here, but in the UK they use them as part of their MOT.