BN1 Rockers and Doors

[norms55]

Hi everyone, I've worked on a number cars but, this is my attempt at a one this far. I have a 55 BN1 with original body panels. I recently started taking things apart and fixing things up after a failed head gasket and what was later found too be a cracked head. The speed shop says it can be fixed. But, as long as I'm in this spot, I going forward to fix up the rusted areas in front of the rear tires and clean up underneath. The rockers are rusted out along with the lower part of the rear fenders and shut panels. Any advice on what to watch out for in welding in the parts? I understand the engine should remain in due to frame flex on the Healey's. I have some small movement in the door gaps when the car is raised and lowered. The molding actually touches on the passenger side when the car sets. Is there a good way/place to brace the frame to help reduce the movement? Just trying to look down the road and what I'm against. thanks all

 

[bighealeysource]

Hey Norm,
If your inner and outer rockers are bad you will get frame flex as you describe. They provide a great deal of rigidity to the frame as obviously part of it. First and most important thing you can do is join the Austin Healey Club USA for $35 or $40, forget which, and then get access to the outstanding restoration series put together by Roger Moment and Gary Anderson. It is online in a downloadable format as it appeared over many issues of the club monthly magazine. In it you will find several installments on exactly what you are getting into. Best investment you can make to do it right. Know the issues with rusted doglegs and rockers are covered. Think even welding tips. The website is: www.healey.org
Good luck and continue to ask questions on the forum - you will get a lot of great advice.

Regards,
Mike

 

[Randy Forbes]

When replacing sills and rockers in the past (been at least a decade since I've done any lately ) I used a set of "jacks that I made up to position the door aperture where/how I wanted it.

The jacks could be set with the engine, et al, in place and then the car diassembled to work on. They allowed the doors (on thier hinges) to swing and be tested while the work was taking place (quick-release door hinges were were going to be my next invention to work with these jacks...).

Constructed mostly of 1/2" thick bar-stock, 1-1/2" CR tubing, 3/4" black-iron pipe, 3/4" LH/RH hardware and secured to the door jamb pinch-welds with pointed set-screws.

 

[bighealeysource]

Hey Randy,
Now that you are "retired" in Florida, you need to open up a Healey Restoration business. I know if I see you responding to a post I will learn something or be amazed at your knowledge/expertise.
Regards,
Mike

 

[Randy Forbes]

Hey Randy,
Now that you are "retired" in Florida, you need to open up a Healey Restoration business. I know if I see you responding to a post I will learn something or be amazed at your knowledge/expertise.
Regards,
Mike

I'm hardly retired; shipped six (6) BMW Z3/M trunkfloor/differential mount reinforcement packages out in the last nine (9) days (prepped about a dozen of them to be shipped last weekend) and here's the car I'm currently working on: https://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index.php/LWR

This car arrived from Washington less than a week after we moved in, and it patiently waited until I was able to at least have some systems in place to allow working on it. I have quite a backlog of cars to do, not having accepted any work since last December. Oh, and I am still trying to get the garage set up so I can be more efficient (still searching in boxes...).

Most of the BMWs are in and out in under two (<2) weeks, and even the simplest job on a Healey can take a month, or more. Besides, the BMWs are far easier to work on (how's that for a <span style="font-style: italic">spin</span> on older cars are simple/modern cars are complicated?) they're seldom dirty (I charge extra when they are) and I've virtually forgotten what rust looks like. What's not to like?

At least my Healey is now in better/cleaner accommodations:

I won't be "retired" until my hands can no longer do what they're told :wink:

 

[red57]

Wow, You have sure conviced me I don't want a BMW! Those pictures are scary - is that a design flaw or were these 'sprited' drivers that flogged the cars too much?

Think I'll stick to my Healey, 25 years owning/driving and 15 years of racing have not resulted in any damage like that - if the tinworm doesn't get them, they are pretty much indestructable (unles you hit something....).

 

[Randy Forbes]

Wow, You have sure conviced me I don't want a BMW! Those pictures are scary - <span style="font-weight: bold">is that a design flaw or were these 'sprited' drivers that flogged the cars too much?</span>

Think I'll stick to my Healey, 25 years owning/driving and 15 years of racing have not resulted in any damage like that - if the tinworm doesn't get them, they are pretty much indestructable (unles you hit something....).

Some of both, I suppose; the car was conceived to handle a 138 bhp 4-cylinder engine (1996 release date, using the Bond movie Golden Eye, btw) and ultimately by 2001/2002 (final production year) they had up to 315 bhp.

By the end of 2003, my 01 (///M Rdstr__the factory's 315 hp hotrod) had in excess of five hundred (>500) documented drag-race type launches in autocross competitions (by both my wife & I, on R-compound__sticky__tires, no less) but because I was aware of the potential for trouble, I noticed when I had a measley 1-1/2 "compromised" spotwelds. In other words, had it not been for all the <span style="font-style: italic">burnouts</span>, my car would likely stayed pristine with just street driving.

If I had to put a finger on it, I'd have to say I've repaired more cars in the 1998-2000 range of ///M Rdstrs (factory 240 bhp); somewhere in the 2000 MY production run, they added a few stitch welds to the trunkfloor xmbr, but it was really too little too late.

The worst cases (that I've seen) are unsuspecting motorists (as opposed to enthusiasts) that don't recognize when it starts to go bad, then keep driving/hammering on them until they look like the car shown above. That's an extreme example, and not what I routinely see.

In summary, they're an outstanding sports car, offering a very high level of performance and comfort. I would certainly still buy one (or two...) knowing what I know now. It would be akin to not buying a Healey, because you knew it would rust out (mine was a California car, and it still had rusted out doglegs and the back ends of the sills/rockers when I bought it in 1978).

If anyone ever made a truly perfect car, I doubt any of us could afford one; at least the first generation of BMW ///M Roadsters and Coupes have a well known cure for their biggest ailment, just like Healeys have spawned an aftermarket indusrty of sheetmetal suppliers. It's not so different :wink:

 

[norms55]

Thanks all for the info, especially Randy, You most be some type of auto engineer. This part of the project may be a little beyond me. I had a good running driver until the head developed the trouble and one thing always seems to lead to another. It's not looking like a simple thing to get the sills replaced. A lot more cutting of other things, it appears. What I have, with the molding and trim removed is a approximately 1/16" gap on the passenger side door that causes the cockpit trim to rub when closing. When I lift the car from the side until the rear wheel is off the ground, the gap opens to 3/16" (.08'' to .19"). The driver moves approximately the same amount under the same lifting, but the cockpit trim clears when on all 4. Anyone doing a Healey restore in the Oklahoma City area? I'd like to see a frame up close. Thanks all. the force be with me...

 

[Randy Forbes]

Thanks all for the info, especially Randy, You most be some type of auto engineer.

Nope, just another <span style="font-style: italic">over the top</span> enthusiast, like most of the people here (I just post the most images__thank God we're not still paying for film & developing)!

This part of the project may be a little beyond me. I had a good running driver until the head developed the trouble and one thing always seems to lead to another. It's not looking like a simple thing to get the sills replaced.

It's quite conceivable to get just the inner/outer sills and rocker panels repaired (or replaced, a/r), primed and painted without condemning the car to a complete restoration; a project that could take years, or never be completed at all. There's a world of difference between settling for a solid driver than holding out for a show-stopping car that's then too nice to enjoy driving.

A lot more cutting of other things, it appears.

I replaced the sills/rockers/floors & toe-boards of an otherwise completely assembled MKIII some years ago (pre-digital images, but I do have pictures of the process) and it wasn't as daunting of a project as it first seems. You just have to be mindful of the order of things, then put everything back together in the opposite order of how you took it apart. Nowadays, with the selection of metal-cutting and panel-trimming tools available to the DIY enthusiast, it would be even easier than when I did that MKIII__there were no online help forums such as this one either!

What I have, with the molding and trim removed is a approximately 1/16" gap on the passenger side door that causes the cockpit trim to rub when closing. When I lift the car from the side until the rear wheel is off the ground, the gap opens to 3/16" (.08'' to .19"). The driver moves approximately the same amount under the same lifting, but the cockpit trim clears when on all 4. Anyone doing a Healey restore in the Oklahoma City area? I'd like to see a frame up close. Thanks all. the force be with me...

As Mike indicated (in post #2) getting the online restoration series from the national club is a very smart investment in seeing how other people succeeded in doing what you want to do; just don't feel like as soon as you make the first cut, you've locked yourself into a total restoration. Use the online guides for just the tasks that are pertinent to what you want to accomplish. If you reach a hurdle you can't get past, someone on here will be standing on the other side, willing to help pull you over. You may also decide to job out portions of the work to a local specialist (the welding or painting come to mind here) and often it's actually more cost-effective to hire someone that knows what they're doing.

Good luck (may the force be with you...) and keep us posted on how things are going. Take LOTS of pictures along the way (I use a Canon G6 for most of the pictures in my gallery__certainly ALL the BMW shots I take__I buy them off Ebay for pretty cheap now, sometimes as low as $50.00; not bad considering the first one I bought new was about $600.00 a decade ago!). The pictures will come in handy for your own reference, and WE'LL ALL want to see how you're coming along, and give pointers on things we see in the shots.

 

[Bob McElwee]

I would sugest getting in touch with one or more of the members of the AHCA OK club. I've removed the name of a Technical resource that passed away.


Oklahoma AH Owners Club
Sanctioned 1991-11-01
Website
Meetings Call President
Newsletter
Officers
Delegate Chuck Anderson andersonfoot@msn.com 405-364-7308
NewsletterChuck Anderson andersonfoot@msn.com 405-364-7308
President Philip Dooley 918-369-8980
Treas/Membership Richard Salamon richards@kfoc.net 918-250-1028
Technical Bill Johnson 405-254-5826
Technical Mick Thornley 918-446-3636

 

[norms55]

Thanks again everyone. I've taken a lot of photos so far and just need to get them off the camera. I've been under the car this evening taking measurements. One side to other seems to match and the car is setting level on the garage floor (tire pressure and all equal). The doors are at the correct angles. I jacked it the car on the right side far enough to get the wheels off the ground and the door gaps opened about an 1/8" to the top. thanks again

 

[vette]

Hi Norm,
I welded 1/2" angle iron across the openning of the doors on the inside of the openning so that i could still install and remove the doors as required. I also left the engine and trans in place while I did all the body reconstruction to help keep the body in at least the alignment that I believed it would be in with the big chunks in place. take a look at your rear frame rails just below the rear axle. The underslung frame gets pounded pretty hard there and you might see that the frame rails are squished alittle and bulging out somewhat laterally. This will tend to cause the rear of the frame to be kicked up a touch and can contribute to the doors being tighter at the top rear. I replaced just about everything except the main frame rails and two outriggers. The toe boxes were alittle hard with the engine and trans in place but I finished the inside welds to the frame after i finished the body and pulled the engine. I did not take my shrouds off nor did I remove the front firewall/bulkhead or the rear bulkhead behind the seats but they both needed pieces welded in. Because I left these in as main structures, I used the front bulkhead and the door hinge post as my reference to start the reconstruction of the door opennings and the placement of the inner and outer sills and the door latch pillar. I'm sorry I don't have any pics on the forum except for my avitar on the left here. You can see the body is completely done now. It is a daunting task. I've done a few cars but this is going into the fourth year of a two year project. Good luck.
Dave.