Bleeding the bloody brakes again

[tahoe healey]

I went another round of bleeding at the wheel cylinders. I get 2 inches to 3 inches of movement before it becomes hard pedal. If I then pump it a couple of times, it is hard pedal after 1 inch of play. Is this correct to have that pumping effect?
TH

 

[elrey]

No.

 

[tahoe healey]

darn. OK, darn then.

 

[Keoke]

I went another round of bleeding at the wheel cylinders. I get 2 inches to 3 inches of movement before it becomes hard pedal. If I then pump it a couple of times, it is hard pedal after 1 inch of play. Is this correct to have that pumping effect?
TH

-------HECK NO!!!!---Keoke--- :laugh:

 

[tahoe healey]

Then HELP! I've bleed 3 times with nothing but clear fluid. Ive bench bled the master. Used over 3 containers of fluid. Servo?

 

[Bob_Spidell]

You'll have to pump to get good pedal if the 'foot' valve--the one that seals off the line to the reservoir when you hit the brakes--isn't sealing properly. I blew one of these seals on a long road trip and had to pump every time I needed to brake for over 1,000 miles--no fun. Have someone pump the brake whilst you watch the fluid in the reservoir; if you see the fluid rise when pedal is applied that could be your problem.

In my experience Big Healey brakes are sometimes more difficult to bleed than other cars, possibly because of the remote reservoir and/or servo. I've often had to do 'manual' bleeds several times before I was happy with the pedal. Got tired of that, so I fab'd my own pressure bleeder with a reservoir cap, a Schrader valve and one of those clip-on chucks. Works a treat at about 10psi.

 

[ahealey1004]

hey TH- I'm actually going through the same thing on my bn4. Not sure what model you have, but I've found the drum brake cars to be especially frustrating to remove all the air from the lines. Bench bleeding the master is a good start. I assume you've checked all connections for leaks? Also, I make sure I have the brake shoes (on my bn4) adjusted so there's very slight drag on the drums (to minimize travel of the brake cylinders). I always start from the furthest brake cylinder from the master cylinder, affix a tight-fitting line to the end of the bleeder nipple down into a Heineken bottle with the end in clear brake fluid. Then have my very patient helper pump (hard) the brakes multiple times, hold down while I crack open the bleeder and watch the bubbles flow. I do this multiple times, each time checking that the MC is refilled (since you'll lose a lot in the process into the beer bottle). I then move around the car eventually ending up at the driver's side wheel. The factory manual says to open the bleeder up while operating the pedal with a "slow full stroke until the fluid entering the jar is completely free of air bubbles. Then, during a down stock of the brake pedal, tighten the bleed screw sufficiently....". But I haven't found that method to work for me. I've also heard of other folks isolating the wheel cylinders after they've bled them by clamping the rubber brake line carefully with hose pliers and then continuing around to the remaining wheel cylinders. That may be my next plan of attack. I guess my response to pumping brakes is different than the other folks who've chimed in- I've found it habit (over the 20 years I've driven my bn4) to pump my brakes twice each time I use them (except when panic-stops don't allow this!).
Good luck-
Austin

 

[red57]

In my experience if you have a firm/hard pedal (at any height) you do not have air. Air compresses and fluid doesn't so if you pump several times and the pedal comes up but is soft, then you have air in the system. If you push down and have a low but hard pedal or pump a few times and you have a higher hard pedal, you do not have air in the system. When you have a soft/mushy pedal you are compressing air.

If the pedal is hard then I would look to shoe adjustments, if the shoes are too far from the drums then it can take more fluid (longer pedal stroke) to push them into contact with the drum & thats why the pedal comes up after pumping because when you pump them the shoes don't have enough time to return to the rest position so you gain a little more at each pump.

my .02

Dave

 

[tahoe healey]

Thanks all. I re-adjusted the rear brake tighteners and went for a 10 mile drive and all seems well. No mush or soft pedal. Still 1 1/2 of movement until it catches but no more pumping getting higher pedal. I don't remember if it was that way before. I'll wait a few days then try the pedal again.
I appreciate all the help. I've done MGBs, and Jags before and never had such an ordeal. I hope this is done now.

 

[Legal Bill]

Does your car have an adjustable rod going into the MC? If so, You may need to lengthen it.

 

[tahoe healey]

Yes but that seems to just move the pedal away from the other two pedals and towards me. I played with it when I put in the new master cylinder.