BJ8 stalling out to due electrical issues

[pkmh]

Thanks for the gas tip Tahoe. I already have to revamp the gas tank at some point because of all the crud in there. I will use an electolytic method of a battery with positve (rubber insulated at tank opening)and negative connections, a simple steel rod and baking soda. Or maybe just replace the tank.

By the way, a small glympse of my somewhat restored cutoff, but wirng not completely reassembled yet.

 

[Keoke]

A side note about the gas gauge. Never let it get below 1/8th.

? Just make sure it is always bouncing

Yep I think you better replace the tank.//.----Keoke-- :laugh:


You can suck crud into the fuel pump and that will be a whole new string of posts.

 

[bob hughes]

Just check that low tension lead between the dizzy and the coil, I had similar symptoms once and it was only by luck that I quickly found that the end connections on the wire were almost hanging on by the insulation only. There must have been continuity to start her up but after 10 mins or so the engine would conk out, wait 20 mins ish and she would start up again only to conk out again later.



Bob

 

[pkmh]

Hi again,

I've made some progress yesterday, but I have some news regarding my generator (maybe).

My friend and I tried a number of different approaches in checking to see if the generator is working and or to see if we could polarize it.

First, we hooked up wiring from the positive connection of the generator to a ground (generator frame). A volt reading showed .5 volts during idle and roughly about 1.5 to 1.8 volts during high idle.

Then we disconnected the generator and brought it to the rear by the battery. With the engine off of course, negative to negative, then positive the positive. The generator started to move a little on its own, but not much. With hopes that that was enough to polarize it, we reinstalled it and were able to get a high reading of about 2.0 volts during high idle (I feel there was no difference from the volt testing results above).

The battery's voltage reading started at 12.24 volts, ending up with a volt reading of 12.00. Even after revving the engine, the battery still read 12.00. From all this, we have concluded the generator is not working properly, but may not be the only thing wrong.

What I am going to try first is replacing the brushes to the communator and check to make sure the spring clips to the brushes are providing enough pressure on the brushes. Otherwise, I do not see anything physically wrong with the generator, especially from the time I've replaced the bearings earlier this year. My friend was also a witness to this rebuild. We are both confused right now why the generator is not charging.

Also, I want to replace the regulator to omit the possibility of problems going on there. Even if there is nothing wrong with the regulator, I will have a spare and is not too expensive to replace.

My ignition light still remains on during all of my trials. I am also noticing how the wiring harness appears to have wires which have been severed from points where the harness branches off. Case in point, where the wires branch off and feed to the coil, distributor and generator. But funny, I do not see wire connections missing.

I may consider reverting back to making the car positive ground, but I know I should check the fuel pump's set up (positive, negative or bi-polar). So, this is where I'm at for the moment. Any other thoughts what I should consider, well, you know where I am.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[dancrim]

Take both the Gen. and regulator to a local old time auto electric shop. They can run the genrator and then the regulator on a test bench and test them. I just had mine done.

 

[pkmh]

Hi Dancrim,

I felt we were an old time shop when performing the testing. That is, we're getting old and running out it time!

Since I already have new brushes and I have taken apart the generator once before, I am familiar with the setup. The old brushes looked like they were in very good shape, but cosmetically speaking.

Thanks and will keep that in mind of all else fails.

Paul

 

[Keoke]

Well the brushes may be in good shape but the commutator on te armature may need turning and under cutting.

Oh by the way all the tests you performed on the generator says it is dead in the water --Keoke

 

[Ed_K]

Paul,

I am saying this in an attempt to get you back on track. I am not trying to pick a fight with you or anyone.

You are never going to get this sorted out unless you stop
skipping around all over the place. You are getting some good advice from many folks but then you move on to another area and then someone else gives you advice about the new item that you skipped to. You never seem to complete correcting the items that you are being advised are wrong. I am in the product support field and when you have a big complicated problem to fix, you simply go about checking AND THEN FIXING each little problem that you identify. After fixing a few of these little problems, suddenly the big complicated problem magically takes care of itself !
...

1.. You need to get the shop manual and follow it, step by step to check out these things that you are asking about.

2.. Right now, you and your friend are trying to check the generator output and don't see but 1 or 2 volts. Nowhere do you say that you have connected the two terminals on the generator together with a short piece of wire. That is step #3 of section N.6 of the shop manual. The section is titled, " testing in position to locate fault in charging circuit ".
That sounds exactly like what you have been trying to do on this thread. A generator needs voltage applied to the field in order to make voltage/power out of the generator, No voltage applied to the field, no power will come out of the large terminal. The red light will stay lit in the tach. It is that simple. On a normally running car, the voltage regulator turns the voltage on and off to the generator field as the means to regulate the power output of the generator.

3.. You have been told to disconnect that white with black wire from the coil until you have sorted out all the problems with you electrical system. You need to do that now and you can put at back when you are all done and the generator is putting out power and the red light goes out. It is not needed for the car to run but if left connected and is bad, can cause the car to NOT RUN. You do not need the cutoff switch in the circuit until the car is charging correctly. The previous owner had run the ground wire from the battery straight to ground bypassing the cutoff switch. You should also leave it bypassed until you fix the charging problem.

4.. If you have a battery that shows 12.78 volts when you are done charging it and then the next morning shows only 12.0 volts, then you have a bad battery. It should be replaced.

If you test the generator output like you are supposed to do it and then see 14 to 16 volts output like you should, that points at a bad voltage regulator or you have a poor connection on the ground strap that goes between the frame and the engine near the starter.
You could also have a poor connection on the little black ground wire from the voltage regulator to the ground screw in the firewall.

If you CORRECTLY test the output of the generator and see nothing, then the generator is bad and needs to be repaired or
replaced. If the field winding was open then it would never put out any power, just like if you never apply voltage to the field terminal of the generator.


Test the generator output 1st and then fix the generator 1st if it is not putting out the correct voltage when tested correctly per the shop manual.

Once that is corrected, you can hook up the white and black wire again and run the ground from the battery through the cutoff switch.

The battery is not going to fix itself no matter what else is wrong with you charging system. You should take it back and tell them it will not hold a charge . They will test it for you and replace it for no charge if you just purchased it.

And one final piece of advice, get a shop manual and read the
N section and follow the various steps to check out the various parts of the electrical system.

Good luck !
Ed


PS.. Since you have a BJ8, use section NNN.6 instead of section N. It also has you jumper the two terminals together on the generator in order to test the output.

 

[dancrim]

I still say let a shop test both units together and then your sure. Needless to say you did polarize the Gen. when you switched to - ground.

 

[Keoke]

I still say let a shop test both units together and then your sure. Needless to say you did polarize the Gen. when you switched to - ground.

-------------------------------------

 

[pkmh]

Thank you for your honest remark Ed K.

No, it doesn’t sound like you’re picking a fight with me. I don’t mind criticism as long it is constructive and in good taste. True and I admit, I have been behaving like a chicken with my head chopped off at times. But I felt I was proceeding in a more or less methodical approach in problem solving my electrical issues and based on suggestions and advice posted here, even if it seems like I’m crawling as I go.

I do realize I have a real problem (or more than one). The car stalls out. Why? From all the advice I received it could be a number of different reasons. Such causes are including but not limited to the battery, the “little” wire between the dizzy and the distributor, the coil, the regulator, the generator, the cutoff switch, the terminals, the distributor and who knows what else. You say I am all over the place? YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! I have received all kinds of advice and because it has to do with electrical, I consider all to be valid. Plus I have had a few look at the car in person, who are more knowledgeable in this area than I. Some make suggestions, others seem stumped. All I can say is, is that I am glad I am not totally alone.

One hypothesis to remember, “THE BATTERY IS DEAD, THEREFORE THE CAR WON’T START.” Very true!

In my case, the hypothesis reads, “THE CAR WON’T START, THEREFORE THE BATTERY IS DEAD.” Very false and that’s what I’m suck with trying to resolve.

I am holding off the battery as the culprit because it does seem to hold a charge, providing I don’t use it. I have also been advised to hold off on the battery and I agree, for now. Next, to check the cutoff switch. Well, I did that and found out to be fully operational. So that is one thing accomplished. I thank Keoke for his input. Now I just checked the generator. I see no harm in replacing the brushes since I already have the parts. I can accept the fact that the generator might be kaput but I am not giving up just yet. I am going to replace the regulator because as I said it is not expensive and I will have a spare part anyway. I just love spare parts. I see no problem with that.

There are a couple of items Ed, you point out I have not or do not recall reading before so I do appreciate learning that. I will look into those areas. Thank you for sharing.

I have found this site to be very informative, educational and a means to share opinions or facts with others. I will, without reservation, throw out ideas from time to time. Case in point, considering reverting back to becoming positive ground. I have had conversations about this off line and decide to present it here for advice or discussion and for reasons the tach is not working (but I have to be careful about the fuel pump‘s setup). I sincerely do not feel I have mislead anyone here and have been accomplishing what’s works and what doesn’t. I am chipping away, slowly, but surely. But if I do mess up, then by all means, please set the record straight so as to not confuse anyone else here.

Much appreciated! Keep it coming.

Paul