BJ8 difficult to start

[Miktre]

Hello to the forum. This is my first post here. I have recently purchased a '64 AH 3000 Mklll phase ll. It runs beautifully once it starts. Subsequent starts through out the day is no problem. The problem is that it is difficult to start, first start of the day. Choke in, choke out doesn't make any difference. The engine will fire but not continue. This keeps going on until it finally does keep going, but then runs as if it is running on 3 or 4 cylinders only. After about 30 to 45 seconds of this, it comes right and is no problem for the rest of the day. If I then leave it for several days the same thing occurs.
any ideas out there would be greatly appreciated.
regards
Mike

 

[BigGreen]

My first thought is the fuel.
Before turning the engine let the fuelpump do its work
Turn the key and wait until the pump stops ticking
I even do this a few times over again with my car

 

[DerekJ]

Check that the choke is operating properly at the carbs. It may be sticking or there may be slack in the cables.

 

[RAC68]

Hi Mike,

Well. I have owned my 64 BJ8 Phase 1 since new and experience initial start-up you describe when the car is left for extended periods. I follow the procedure BigGreen suggests and give it as much choke as possible for my initial start. Although I can't say you don't have a issue to resolve, I can say that I have heard this complaint from many BJ8 owners and have come to believe it is a characteristic of the car. I would definitely follow Derek"s suggestion to check the operation of the choke and, if the original single return spring is still in place, caution that it will take quite a pull to fully apply the choke. Also, when released, the choke may not be fully returning on both carburetors and results in a rich mixture then the carburetors are set for. Also, check your advance for a correct setting.

Hope this helps,
Ray(64BJ8P1)

 

[Keith_M]

I think the first place to look is the choke linkage. Remove the air cleaners and have someone pull the choke cable while you watch the carbs. The linkage for both carbs should move equally, and it is important that the very bottom part of the carbs (the jet) moves downward as you pull the cable. If only one carb is moving, it would cause the symptoms you describe.

That said, I concur with others before me in that I generally have to crank the engine for a little while if the car has been sitting for more than a day. However, once it fires, it runs smoothly on all cylinders from the start. I don't think it should run rough if the chokes are properly adjusted. I also agree that you should turn the key on and let the fuel pump run until it stops ticking. This fills the float bowls so that you get the proper amount of gas to the jets.

 

[blakey]

I agree with Keith but I would go further. Healeys do not have a 'choke' at all but rather an 'enriching' device which lowers the fuel feed jets relative to the needle and this makes the mixture richer for starting. I have found that not only must the jets both lower when the 'choke' cable is pulled but they must lower the same amount for good cold starting and running. Unscrew the dampers from the top of the su's. Remove the dash-pot covers and dash-pots carefully and do not mix any of the parts up. Now you can measure how far down the jets lower when you pull the knob right out. They should lower roughly the same amount or adjust the linkage until they do. Reassemble and check dash pot damper oil. Properly adjusted my BJ8 fires up easily and runs smoothly on cold mornings.
Paul

 

[Miktre]

Thanks guys for all your sound comments. I believe you are all on the right track. This morning I tried starting the car again, and as suggested by Big Green I let the fuel pump continue to tick for some time. Funny thing is though, it didn't stop ticking, left it going for 2 minutes or so before trying to start but still it didn't stop?? With (I guess) more fuel in the carbs it started much better without the 4-5 cylinder running business.
Do you think I might have a dodgy (faulty) fuel pump due to it not stopping to tick. Strange this is though, once it has started and run for a few minutes it starts and runs fine. I will check choke operation in due course, but it shoes seem to be working ok once I can get adequate gas to the carbs.
cheers
mike

 

[RAC68]

One point of caution, I was talking to a BJ8 owner who just installed a Pertronix. He indicated that voltage stabilization was critical and attributed the failure of a number of units to turning on the ignition without starting the car (i.e. to listen to the radio, pre-pump the carbs, etc.). I us an Allison/Crane optical ignition and have had no difficulty but would caution anyone using a Pertronix ignition to research and evaluate the risk before turning on the ignition to pump the carbs.

Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[RAC68]

Mike,

With that much pumping, you are either not pumping fuel or leaking it somewhere. If no puddles, check the output pump pressure and the input flow (pickup blocked). If you put a filter on the input line to the pump, it could be clogged.

Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[John Turney]

Ticking for 2 minutes without stopping isn't right. Even if it's been sitting for a month or more, mine only takes about 1/2 minute to fill the carbs and the pump to stop. I have the BJ8 HD8 carbs.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Incessant pumping--it there's no puddle of gas on the floor--usually indicates an air leak on the inlet side.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

... caution anyone using a Pertronix ignition to research and evaluate the risk before turning on the ignition to pump the carbs. Ray (64BJ8P1)

FWIW, I've had a Pertronix in my BJ8 for at least 10yrs and 50K+ miles and I've had no problems, and I always let the pump fill the float bowls before attempting a start. Even after a long sit, the bowls should fill in 15 seconds or so.

 

[Keith_M]

I'll chime in here, although it's probably not necessary; you're getting good information. Waiting for the ticking to stop is part of my 'pre-flight' checklist. If the ticking doesn't stop in 10 or 15 secs, somethings wrong, and since that something has to do with fuel delivery, you should probably troubleshoot it immediately. My bet would be overflowing float bowls, but as Bob said, it could be an air leak between the pump and tank (an empty gas tank will do it too, but that's obviously not the case here).

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Side note: Balky SU fuel pumps are the topic of many conversations, and I've certainly had my share of problems with them. But, we're not alone: last weekend I helped my father work on his '55 T-Bird; he's gone through a half-dozen (mechanical) fuel pumps and has yet another defective one. Fuel pumps are problematic across-the-board, even the newer ones that drive FI cars (they're in the tank and usually a PITA/$$$ to replace).

I'm running a Dave DuBois electronic conversion now, and it's been good for a couple years and 10K miles. I still carry two spares when I go on the road.

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Side note: Balky SU fuel pumps are the topic of many conversations, and I've certainly had my share of problems with them. But, we're not alone: last weekend I helped my father work on his '55 T-Bird; he's gone through a half-dozen (mechanical) fuel pumps and has yet another defective one. Fuel pumps are problematic across-the-board, even the newer ones that drive FI cars (they're in the tank and usually a PITA/$$$ to replace).

I'm running a Dave DuBois electronic conversion now, and it's been good for a couple years and 10K miles. I still carry two spares when I go on the road.

Bob, I'm running a unit from Dave Dubois and it pumps good when I first turn on the key and stops when the carb float bowls are full but it really ticks a lot when I start to drive. Is this normal for his electronic pumps?

 

[Bob_Spidell]

I've had SU electronic, and several do-it-yourself-conversions, including SU's kit and Dave's earlier power transistor mod (which he has since disavowed). It's hard to tell when the electronic pumps fire--with a points pump I can tune my BMC radio between stations and hear the pump and every plug fire (sorry neighbors)--but as far as I know the electronics should behave just like a points pump; i.e. speeding up and slowing down based on engine speed, being that they're demand driven. However, on my latest trip I was sitting in front of a motel with the engine idling waiting for my navigator to book a room and the pump started 'fibrillating;' i.e. pumping fast and erratic. I was sure I'd have to swap pumps but we drove on and the pump made it the whole 3,106 mile trip. So, my guess is sometimes the electronic pumps fire erratically for who-knows-what reason, but unless they fail leave them in and worry about the stock market instead.

One of Dave's conversions did fail me; I sent it back to him and he surmised some moisture had gotten under the cap and shorted one of the printed circuits (we did get quite a bit of rain on that trip). One thing I've realized is, some pumps have a little cap with a check valve that goes on the vent--I believe it's there to vent ozone that can accumulate with a points pump--and if you don't have that cap I think water can get in that way.

 

[Miktre]

Thanks for all your comments.
No puddles on the floor, no smell of fuel so I guess it is possibly one of three things; blockage, air leak or a dodgy pump. I will do some fault finding during the next few days and post any results. Funny though......it seems to run ok after that first start and while driving???
cheers
mike

 

[Keoke]

FWIW, I've had a Pertronix in my BJ8 for at least 10yrs and 50K+ miles and I've had no problems, and I always let the pump fill the float bowls before attempting a start. Even after a long sit, the bowls should fill in 15 seconds or so.

---With BOB
--- You can also try pumping the choke a couple of times.

 

[DerekJ]

As you have just got the car you should check what kind of fuel pump you actually have. If its an original type SU then it should stop ticking if its a modern electronic pump they often have by-pass valves and will continue to tick all the time.

 

[Miktre]

Removed fuel line to carbs and checked flow rate with pump operating. Good flow, probably took 15 seconds to fill 500 ml container. Put finger over end of fuel tube while pump operating, didn't stop ticking but the pump did alter in ticking cycle and sound.
Derek, thank you for your post re modern pumps. I then removed R/H rear wheel and checked pump type. It is not an SU unit but it appears to be one of the newer electronic inline pumps and as Derek indicated in his post these pumps continue to tick but have a by pass circuit when carb bowls are full.
I also checked choke cables to the carbs, they seem to be operating the choke levers on the carbs ok. Will look further into this to make sure carbs are being enrichened ok
cheers
mike