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BJ8 Cylinder Head Re-Torque

WHT

Jedi Hopeful
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Hi Bob,

You make good points.

However, I think the need to retorque cylinder head bolts and nuts also goes back 70 years ago when softer composite head gaskets were common on many car (and boat) engines. Head gasket manufacturers still make older style composite head gaskets for these engines and stationary engines. Below is a section from an engine building forum discussing rebuilding older engines:

"It appears the idea of retorquing head bolts originated "back in the day" when softer composite head gaskets were commonplace.

After being torqued down these gaskets would tend to "settle" a bit; this made retorquing them a good idea to prevent seepage and other issues. Modern head gaskets don't have this issue and as such don't require retorquing. After all, when you buy a new car you don’t have to bring it back to the dealership after 200 miles to have the head bolts retorqued.

The best way to know for sure is to read the head gasket manufacturer instructions. It they don't specifically tell you to retorque the head fasteners then don't. If you feel the need to retorque your head bolts or studs then follow the same pattern as you did when you initially torqued them down, do one at a time, and, especially with aluminum heads, we would advise doing it on a cool engine."


Regarding 'torque-to-yield' cylinder studs/bolts, they really were not used very much in the 1950s and 1960s. They are a more recent development when aluminum heads became common on iron blocks and the cylinder studs and bolts had to deal with greater and unequal thermal expansion due to the dissimilar materials. Bolted head and block assemblies now moved against each other producing greater shear forces on the head gasket..

Regarding using a modified crow foot spanner to torque head bolts and nuts, there is a simple mathematical formula to adjust the torque applied to a crow-foot wrench to match required head bolt torque specifications. Its just easier if the crow-foot is aligned with the drive as was the Britool 18G545 spanner.

Lastly, be careful using washers between the cylinder stud nut and the block. ARP discovered people were damaging their cylinder head studs and engine blocks a few years ago when using between the nut and headwashers. They issued a technical paper discussing the problem:

"An engine builder was torquing the head bolts on his engine (the torque spec called for 70 lb-ft of torque). But something was definitely not right and he could feel it in the torque wrench. As he applied over 60 lb-ft of torque, the resistance in the torque wrench felt like either the stud was failing or the threads were pulling out of the block.

Here’s what ARP has discovered. What he felt when he reached the point where the torque wrench felt like the bolt was stretching was really the head stud washer beginning to turn – and therefore reducing the friction. He had enough experience to know that because it didn’t feel right, he should stop applying additional torque before more damage was done.

He experienced the problem because the washer between the nut and head began to rotate slightly. This effectively turned the washer into a bearing, reducing friction. If a spinning washer reduces the friction by even a third, it applies another 10- to 15-percent of torque into stretching the bolt, and this radically increases the actual torque applied to the bolt. This additional torque fails the bolt by stretching it beyond its yield strength or pulling the threads out of the block. Both of these are situations best to avoid.

The solution was to polish the washer surface next to the head nut and rough the surface next to the block."


Regards, Bill
 
OP
AUSMHLY

AUSMHLY

Obi Wan
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Also, no one has mentioned if the torque specs are 'dry' or 'lubed,' which makes a considerable difference in the actual torque/stretch applied (I don't recall if the shop manual specifies).
My studs and nuts were covered in oil. Seems I torqued them "lubed" to 75 lbs.
My machinist says, no need to replace gasket, please read history above.
My over thinking...my new gasket (200 mile now) is/was wet from antifreeze and maybe oil.
1) Will that affect the 75 lbs torque?
2) New it was installed dry, coated with spray-a gasket, compressed into shape. Will it's compressed shape still seal as well being it wasn't moved?
3) It was coated with Permatex 80697 copper spray-a-gasket. Will that coating still be effective being oil/antifreeze drained over or under it?
4) Having oil/antifreeze on the gasket, will it all get squeezed out and if not will it create any issues?
 

vette

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Well from my memory of the conversation with Bruce, he said he had tried a variety of ways to retorque the bolts in question w/o removing rocker shaft and found to torque them to his satisfaction nothing but removing the rocker shaft would do.
 
OP
AUSMHLY

AUSMHLY

Obi Wan
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UPDATE,

July 3rd I made the mistake of loosening all the head bolts before retorque of my rebuilt engine. (Should have done one at a time, torque, move on to the next) Because of that, antifreeze got in the oil. Some here say replace the head gasket, some say don't. I didn't, I drained the oil and antifreeze and replaced, then adjusted the valves.

I have now driven the car about 20 miles as I'm trying to figure out how to rebuild the transmission. I think the transmission is finally rebuilt properly.

I now hear a tapping noise. I think it's coming from the engine? I thought I'd adjust the valves to find out if that's where the noise is coming from. I pull the valve cover to find water drops on the bottom of the oil cap and the bottom and sides of the valve cover. I also notice a puddle of yellowish liquid near the rear of the cylinder head.

I don't see white smoke from the tailpipes.
The dipstick is clean oil, not milky.

Would antifreeze in oil make the tappets loud?

Before I take everything apart to replace the gasket, am I correct I have a head gasket leak?
Is there a way to confirm that?

I look forward to your thoughts
 

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OP
AUSMHLY

AUSMHLY

Obi Wan
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I'll add that the 30 miles I have driven have been around town, not highway.
If the drops are antifreeze that's concerning. Maybe it's what was left in the engine/oil pan when I did the drain?
Or maybe those drops aren't antifreeze but condensation, because the 30 miles hasn't heated the oil enough to evaporate it?

I've include photo of the spark plugs if that's of any help
 

Healey Nut

Luke Skywalker
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I don’t think 30 miles is enough to get the engine and all it’s components up to prime operating temperature .
I would clean everything you can see . Check and set the valve clearances .
make an accurate note of your coolant level with a cold engine . A ruler into the fill cap to measure depth will work
Check and note oil level .
Take it for a good drive at least an hour even if it’s only circling the neighbourhood .
Watch for white smoke particularly under acceleration . Give it some beans in 2nd/3rd to check .
Let it all cool down overnight check and compare oil/coolant levels , remove valve cover and have a look what the results are .
 

bdcvg

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Look for coolant on the dip stick. It will look like bubbles on the oil. Look for foam build up under the oil fill cap. Coolant eats engine bearings so be careful with a lot of driving until you are sure. A bad head gasket will also make coolant blow out the overflow tube. Get a coolant system pressure tester and pressurize your system and let it sit for awhile to see if it drops.
 
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