BIo-diesel Up-date

[JamesWilson]

BIo-diesel Update

Update to last year's Bio-diesel topic:

This time last year with fuel prices going up, up, up and with a change in British fuel taxation policy exempting vegetable oil from tax. I started using straight vegetable in my Diesel car.

I found that it could be used at modest concentrations (10-20%) without any problems whatsoever. I tried 50% and then 100% and the car ran fine, so long as the weather stayed warm-ish... which isn't long in Scotland.

Once the weather turned cooler the pure vegeratble oil became too thick to allow the car to start. Starting ether could get it going (with a lot of valve clatter and initial smoke) but it'd then run fine once warmed up.

I replaced the glow plugs and found the old ones covered in black soot. This with pure diesel fixed the cold starting problem.

I did not have any difficulties with fuel tank deposits being loosened by the different fuels, though I had spare fuel filters, just in case.

For practical purposes I do not think that the pure vegetable oil option is viable, though it'd be the cheapest if it were.

It seems to me that a mix of 20-30% vegetable oil and diesel would be the most liveable for the warmer months, switching to pure diesel for the cooler months and winter.

But, given current oil prices the vegetabe oil option is uneconomic if it has to be bought rather than taken as a waste by-product from a restaurant.

The hassle of manually filling the tank was anohter aggravation.

I've resolved to use plain diesel for the future, until some oil crisis turns the taps off completely... then I know I can run a vegetarian car, if I have no other choice. Only then would the price be right, and the hassle worthwhile; and the winterization (heated tank, fuel lines, hotter glowplugs, etc.) needed sensible.

 

[Banjo]

Re: BIo-diesel Update

Thanks for the update James. I was wondering how your experiments were doing. I work on a handfull if "grease cars" at our shop. because of the climate, most around here have the heated tank, lines, and filter. My take is that it's a neat idea, but quite a hassle for the savings. not to mention that the cars that use waste fryer oil just flat out stink! they tend to be stinky, dirty, slimy, and not generally plesant to ride in. I'm sure that that could be avoided with proper care, but it seems that generally it's not.

 

[NutmegCT]

Re: BIo-diesel Update

James - that is *really* interesting and useful. Thanks for posting your results and conclusions.

I had been thinking that's what you might discover - the 100% veg oil idea is commendable, intriguing, and feasible, but there's always those darn trade-offs. Do your part for the environment and for dealing with the high price of petroleum products, and something else comes up - including the "hassle" factor.

Back in WW2 some UK and continental drivers were fueling the car with home-made methane; very low horsepower, but at least you could drive without petrol. Soon as petrol became available again, those tag-along methane digesters were tossed in the bin.

I'm also reading about home-built EV cars. Nearly every guy I've contacted who's built (or converted) his own fully electric plug-in car, admits it was the challenge that spurred him to do it; there was no cost savings at all over petrol, and the cost of purchase/conversion was quite high. But there's a big sense of accomplishment, especially when you drive the ol' 1985 VW Golf/Rabbit past all the petrol stops with a big smile on your face.

Thanks again.
Tom

 

[texas_bugeye]

Re: BIo-diesel Update

There is an outfit the name escapes me that makes a kit that has a heat exchanger and some automated valves and a little micro processor. You start out
on pure diesel and the unit warms the BIO diesel. when its warm the valve body shifts it over to the BIO diesel. when you shut off the vehicle it keeps running shifts it back to diesel to clear the lines and fuel rail of the bio then shuts off ready to start on diesel again. Unit has a pump and a heat exchanger and a bio diesel tank with a filter.
There was a demo of it in operation on the speed channel awhile back.
If you had a reliable supply of bio it my pay for its self or it could be a fun fairly easy project to do on your own.

heat exchanger, AB micro processor, couple of three way automated valves dual tank valves from a pickup? a tank and a fuel pump. easy peazy!

 

[JamesWilson]

Re: BIo-diesel Update

I've seen these too.

These are two-tank systems and seperate tanks are needed for the diesel and for the vegetable oil.

It seems that a lot of the more modern diesel engines would need such systems where the older ones (and some modern) aren't so sophisticated in theri design and can run on pure or high % of vegetable oil.

These too would be good for areas with extremely cold weather.

They cold several hundred $/£ and with fuel prices lower it makes it uneconomic unless the vegetable oil is virtually free.

The other option would be to buy a conversion "plant" that would convert the vegetable oil into bio-diesel that could then be directly substituted for petrochemical diesel. This too would cost several hundred $/£ for the system. It would require a fair bit of space for the system and storage for pre-processed oil and the diesel made. Again, a fairly high hassle factor.

I've worked out that I use roughly 1,000 liters of fuel annually. Diesel here costs roughly £1.10 per liter; and vegetable oil in bulk costs roughly £1/liter. So running pure oil would save about £100 annually. A 50/50 mix is proportionately smaller.

So, given the economics, investing in either a conversion plant (no space so that's unlikely unless I build another garden shed) or converting the car, the payback would take years. Leaving aside sophisticated financail net present value calculations like a good MBA would apply, that'd only make the investment less attractive.

I can do it... but the economcis (and hassle factor) are not yet right.

 

[JamesWilson]

Re: BIo-diesel Update

... not to mention that the cars that use waste fryer oil just flat out stink!

So I've been told...

I wasn't able to find a local restaurant to try using waste oil... they all seem to use lard, mor some mix, and that's not the right stuff.

The vegetable oil I used was Rape seed oil (it's called something different in the USA), and that can be grown here- supporting local farmers, I am!

It's a flower and the exhaust smells quite pleasant- vaguely floral.

I'd be inclined to use the new oil- it costs a lot more £1/liter vs free or nearly free; but I'd have not worries about the stuff.

Waste oil would need to be filter to remove bits of food. It'd also be subject to contamination from water (removed by heating to 212F+ to boil it off) and other chemicals leached from the food.

So, unless I was going to invest in a proper bio-diesel conversion plant I do not think I'd bother with all that- the conversion plant involves processing the oil anyway so those steps would be just a bit more onto that processing.

With straight, pure oil I can just pour it in and not worry about what's in the stuff. Waste oil doesn't allow that.

This was just an experiment to see how well the car would run, and I now know that it can, and have some good idea of the conditions in which pure oil might be used. Unless/until diesel becomes quite a lot more expensive I do not think the conversion plant or in-car systems are economic.

Perhaps the greatest benefit is that it's nice to know that if there are temporary fuel shortages I have viable alternatives, too.

 

[Banjo]

Re: BIo-diesel Update

Its always neat to hear of people trying stuff "outside the box". that's intresting about your resturants. That's a cultural difference there. It's rare to find a resturant over here that uses lard in thier fryers. over here its Vegtable oil. Either corn or conaloa mainly, with several other options for the higher class grease joints. so supply of the used fryer "grease" is abundant. except for the pocket areas where veggie diesels have caught on and there are already groups that have the routes covered for waste oil pickup (Like Ithaca)
Using new oil is fairly clean and odor free, but there's noone using new oil around here. it costs as much as diesel, and wether the owners are eco friendly or not, the main reason for the conversions here is cost. Nearly free fuel for the time being!So the flavor of stink depends on where the fuel had been procured. By far the worst are seafood resturants, and Chineese buffets. that's just BAD stink. think about being out behind a McDonalds by thier dumpster and catching a whiff of that when the wind changes. Now imagine your car smelling like that all the time..
It's not so much the exhaust as it is just the spillage and such from the entire system and filling it.
Greasecar.com sells the 2 tank system. And also know that there is a difference between the grease and Bio-diesel. the cars with the heated systems car run straight un adultered fryer grease as long as the chunks are strained. Bio diesel is grease that has been treated so it won't solidify or clog the injectors in the cold. and it can be run in any unmodified diesel vehicle.
Another favorite of WW2 for alternitave fuels was the Wood gas generator. Yup, running your car on wood! it can be done, and fairly easily at that. check it out at Gengas.com.