• Hi Guest!
    If you appreciate British Car Forum and our 25 years of supporting British car enthusiasts with technical and anicdotal information, collected from our thousands of great members, please support us with a low-cost subscription. You can become a supporting member for less than the dues of most car clubs.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

Biltmore Auction Healey on Ebay

Share this page

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...But it still doesn't explain anything about what's wrong with the Biltmore Healey. I subscribe to the capitalist credo, and find no fault with a car, even one with ugly seats, beyond sold to someone who has more money than taste. That's the American way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Capitalism is a wonderful thing, but fraud is a whole separate subject.

reid,sounds like a "gray" area to me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif as ive mentioned in the forum in the past i know of several instances a healey had been purchased, upon the effort to register them the car on paper was never even manufactured,and or the i.d. tags did not match the vintage. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif P.S. hadnt you mentioned something about springs a while back? or am i getting those woodstock flash backs again? whatever! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
reid,sounds like a "gray" area to me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, but to the law, it's known as fraud.


[ QUOTE ]
as ive mentioned in the forum in the past i know of several instances a healey had been purchased, upon the effort to register them the car on paper was never even manufactured,and or the i.d. tags did not match the vintage.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, but to the law, it's known as fraud.

If I find an old wreck of a car that doesn't have a title, but is obviously a plain-Jane model of the marque (say, a BN1), and I restore it and then dig up or make the VIN plate from a more desirable model of the same marque (say, a 100S), and then sell it, representing it as a 100S, I think everyone should cry, "Foul! Fraud! Liar, liar, mechanic's coveralls on fire!" I don't think anyone should regard it as a "gray area." (I guess I'm just SO judgmental.)

It may be a very nice car, and it may be fun to drive, and it may win trophies at car shows. It's still fraud.


[ QUOTE ]
P.S. hadnt you mentioned something about springs a while back? or am i getting those woodstock flash backs again? whatever! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but I got only one (unhelpful) response, so I deleted the thread. I took my question to the Healeys Mail List, just yesterday, where it has received SEVERAL (unhelpful) responses. I'm not sure if that's an improvement or not. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

It's just amazing to me what non-readers people are. I asked for spring dimensions, and I get responses that are basically just recitations of blindingly obvious common sense ("be sure not to use the wrong ones!"), or telling what they know about springs (I guess they like to see their name in print, so they post even if they can't answer the question).

And no, other peoples' inability to read and respond to questions does not mean that I'm testy, offended, or even exasperated. It just means that a lot of other people can't read. That's all.
 
[ QUOTE ]
P.S. hadn't you mentioned something about springs a while back? Or am I getting those woodstock flash backs again? whatever! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but I got only one (unhelpful) response, so I deleted the thread. I took my question to the Healeys Mail List, just yesterday, where it has received SEVERAL (unhelpful) responses. I'm not sure if that's an improvement or not. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

It's just amazing to me what non-readers people are. I asked for spring dimensions, and I get responses that are basically just recitations of blindingly obvious common sense ("be sure not to use the wrong ones!"), or telling what they know about springs (I guess they like to see their name in print, so they post even if they can't answer the question).

And no, other peoples' inability to read and respond to questions does not mean that I'm testy, offended, or even exasperated. It just means that a lot of other people can't read. That's all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Reid,
at the risk of incurring further wrath, I can give you my shop manual specs on BN1, BN2 springs. I had to actually read the manual to get this information! Sorry that I do not have a spring out to measure but my springs appear to match the specs for the BN2. Since they are used springs, the free length is likely to now be shorter than original.

BN1 Front springs:
Free length = 11.14"
Fitted length = 7"
Number of effective coils = 7
Diameter of wire = 0.531"
Inside diameter of coil = 3.589"

BN2 Front springs:
Free length = 11.515"
Fitted length = 7.375"
Number of effective coils = 7
Diameter of wire = 0.531"
Inside diameter of coil = 3.594"

If this helps, fine, If it doesn't help, put me in the class with the rest of the "unhelpful".
D /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]

OK, reading between the lines ("I have serious, ahem, reservations about its provenance") isn't for everyone. Let me state it this way: Would you find fault with a BN1 that had a BN2 Car No. plate (VIN plate) screwed onto the firewall, and was purported to be a 1956 BN2 when it was clearly a BN1, and probably an early one (1953-54)? I think most people would call it fraud. ÂżAhora entienda?

[/ QUOTE ]

OOooohhhhh, that. Si, ahora yo entiendo. Sorry I was being so dense.

Unlike my good friend Anthony, I agree with you completely. Nothing gray about it, and capitalism has nothing to do with misrepresentation. You can call a horse a cow, but you still can't milk it.

There are plenty of Healeys being sold as "restored" that have parts that obviously wrong, and this could fall into a gray area of fraud. But changing the plate and calling a BN1 a BN2 is a smack in the face. I'm with you on this, and apologize for taking so long to understand.
 
I am now "finally" understanding all the facts. If the vehicle is constructed with several items from different years that is one thing, however FRAUD is FRAUD. That should have been brought to the attention of not only the buyer, but more importantly the Auctioneer or even the local Authorities. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
gentleman,of course fraud is fraud! hence the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif after the "gray area" comment.i thougt shg.inparticular for vocational reasons would find a bit of levity in that statement,i witnessed the anger and frustration of individuals that had been taken by such a bamboosle,not pretty,reid im sorry that i didnt have written/printed specs on the springs,yes i could have measured the set i have,but i dont feel that offering them for free to anyone whos front end "sits as if there was no engine in it" for "either comparison or use" was totaly "unhelpfull" perhaps just semihelpfull. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Editor Reid & shg, Why would I want to turn a "plain jane" 100 BN1 into a more desirable one?, they were the epitome of the healey!, all the subsequent versions were just marketing exercises based on the original theme!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Editor Reid & shg, Why would I want to turn a "plain jane" 100 BN1 into a more desirable one?, they were the epitome of the healey!, all the subsequent versions were just marketing exercises based on the original theme!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess I'm kind of an iconoclast, opting for the BN2 with it's new-fangled four-speed 'box. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I take no issue with anybody who takes a few liberties with his car to add things that would have been done originally. In fact, I think it's just as appropriate to make it a bit more "works" than showroom, as that was what would have naturally occurred. BUT, to call it something it's not is to mislead. While it's possible under certain circumstances that somebody doesn't realize that the description is wrong, that doesn't seem possible in this case since it was a restoration and whoever restored it knew better and the change of the number plate makes it sound deliberate. So, it's just plain garden variety fraud, the knowing misrepresentation of fact upon which a seller intends a buyer to rely. Wanna sell it? Just tell the truth and it still looks pretty good, the seats notwithstanding. But clear up the misrepresentation and all is good with the world.
 
Well..my original question has been answered...thankyou to all for a wonderfull discussion..back to my garage to work on the healey!!!

Pete
 
Back
Top