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TR6 Best break in oil for rebuilt TR6 motor?

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Allan,

I was at the auto shop yesterday talking to the guy about Rotella and this is what he told me specifically about the API on the Rotella 15W40 jug. SL doesn't have the zinc it used to.

I don't know about what API spec ratings on other oils mean in respect to specific amounts of zinc content, except that they all have to conform to reduced the zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate levels to meet the API SL spec license requirement. So any oil with API SL will have a reduced level of zinc. Newest oils especially since, ZDDP harms cats. MEOW!

The Castrol site MSDS for GTX 20W50 used to list zinc .14%weight but now doesn't list an amount on their product spec.

So I bought enough GM EOS to last a while. I have also heard that EOS has been/will be reformulated to use other friction modifiers to prevent cam failures, while reducing their amount of zddp. Haven't researched this claim yet.
 
Hi Allan,

just a little comment:
The piston to wall clearance is nothing to care about if set correctly. You don't scrub material off the piston while beak-in you just flat in the surface and rise the density of the alloy ...at high revs that is more effective and give a better resistance to wear. I already talked about the rings.
The cam is bed in during the first minutes of running.

Bearings:
You cannot beak-in a crank or rod bearing. The bearings are in their best condition when they are new. A tight bearing will seize. A too large bearing will consume oil. A correct made bearing will and can run with full power from the first second of running.

But I don't like to talk people over....

Cheers
Chris
 
Mad Marx, I agree with you on the bearings but only partially on the piston/cylinder. A stock or non race motor with less clearance is going to produce more friction and heat at higher RPMs, untill the piston and rings are seated in as you described above you risk the chance of scuffing/scoring the cylinder and rings and then you would be scrubbing material off. Setting the piston/cylinder clearance will vari according to what kind of motor and what you are doing with it. With my race motors I increased my piston/cylinder clearance aprox. 1-2 thous more than what a typical non race motor would be--with that setting I could run my motor up for 20 min.--reset the valves, go to the track and race. That shouldnt be done (high rpms) with a stock motor because of what I mentioned above.--not trying to be argumentitive--just a friendly disagreement.---------here are two sites with break in pocedures, one is from a respected high performance shop in Utah https://www.rpmrons.com/enginestartup.html and the other is from a registry for an older Porshe https://www.356registry.org/tech/engine-breakin.html
 
Allan notified me I wrote a conflicting post. I had to look back through the thread so see my post. I typed it in wrong the 1st time.

Hope this clarifies what I know from my research:

SL is the new spec w/o enough zinc.

SM is the old spec.

The new Rotella T is API SM SL. Since it complies with SL, it complies with the new spec and has less (or no) zinc, even though it still complies with SM.

Confusing since letter "M" is after "L" in the alphabet, my brain just got it forwards, backwards.

Sorry to confuse you. The whole thing is confusing enough without typos! The only solution is to buy oil supplement unless you find an old supply of oil, then GTX alone is OK.
 
The Rotella T also lists API SM SL in addition to the CI service ratings on the bottle I had in my hands. But SL is the API spec for reduced zinc from other articles that I read, maybe CJ is a different class of oil rating.

But, the whole point here is that the newest oils ALL seem to have reduced levels of zinc, required by the EPA or whatever body decided zinc in oil is bad or not needed.

So to keep our engines running, we need to find alternatives.
 
30 WT is pretty thick oil to use during break-in. You need to use EOS...I've had it in every engine I've rebuilt since the mid-1960's (my first was a 283 in 1965). You do need to break-in the camshaft...the rings will seat on their own and the rest of the engine is ready for regular driving from the get-go.
 
boy sure are a lot of opinions on breaking in a new engine, easy vs hard break in, the hard break in make since, I wont have to worry about that for awhile but nice to read articles but sounds like the way to go
 
MadMarx said:
Hard to find an English speaking site of break-in procedures.....BUT finally I've found one....:

https://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Click to expand...
------Well this article is definitly passionate and sounds convincing, the only problem is it is talking about breaking in a motorcyle engine, some people may say whats the difference --a motor is a motor.------There is alot different, pistons, rings, clearances,RPMs and running temperature just to name a few. In my previous post I came up with a couple automotive sites for engine break in procedure, show a credable automotive site that preaches a hard break-in procedure for a non race engine and then it might be a little more convincing.
 
It sure seems like any discussion about oil brings lots of responses!

Allow me to throw a monkey wrench into the works.

From reading the posts, I am getting the drift that zinc is an anti-friction additive? Then isn't zinc counter-productive in a choice for break-in oil?

The reason I am asking is this: Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges, but aircraft engine manufacturers usually recommend straight mineral oil for break-in instead of semi-synthetic ashless dispersant oil. The reasoning is that the ashless-dispersant oils lubricate too well, and the rings won't seat or take too long to seat.

Or has this thread moved away from break-in oil and is now about oil in general?

By the way, pilots will discuss oils ad infinitum as well. I used to save oil articles I found in Flying and AOPA Pilot and other magazines for my Lubrication Systems course, but I stopped as there were so many! My favorite is called Oil: The Most Discussed and Least Understood Subject among Pilots .
 
"Or has this thread moved away from break-in oil and is now about oil in general?"

John,

IMHO The two are one in the same in the case of a Flat Tappet engine. During break-in it is hyper critical to provide extra wear protection between the cam lobe and the face of the lifters. Traditionally this extra protection was provided by adding ZDDP during the manufacturing of engine oil. Apparently current oils no longer include sufficient amounts of this additive.
Although I can't explain the diference the operative words are wear protection. Not anti-friction.
Mineral oil is non synthetic. My understanding is that synthetics are to be avoided during break-in of most engines. Although some high dollar new engines use M1 for break-in it is not the norm.
There are numerous articles in the internet explaining the reasons why flat tappet engines are at risk.
 
I did some digging on ZDDP. This article helps explain what ZDDP does for flat tappets. I didn't read the entire paper. Only enough to understand what the author is approaching with his theory.

If you don't mind reading a technical paper I think you will find this interesting and useful.
https://www.apmaths.uwo.ca/~mmuser/Papers/TL05.pdf

BTW, I'm not a nerd, just thirsty for knowledge in certain areas.
BOBH
 
From what I have read, from both oil companies and camshaft manufacturing companies, the ZDDP in the oil itself can not be counted on for proper break in protection for the camshaft and flat tappets. They both reccomend that plenty of "break in lube" be used. The ZDDP is there for after initial break in has been accomplished.
 
Is anyone here familiar with Andial?

They used to(maybe still have) a high performance Porsche engine shop in Santa Ana area of Southern California.
I know of NO engine that he ever built that broke in competition.


He would use lanolin on the back of bearing shells, engine assembly lube on cam bearings and lifters. copious oil, with extensive prelube before fire up.

I mean he would crank the engines on the dyno without plugs for a good 30 seconds, cool down, then do it again for anohter 30 seconds, then put plugs in. Fire it up, ran it at a fast idle 1800-2500 rpm for 10 minutes. Drain the oil, refill with 20 weight detergent and dyno it. Similar break in to what the motorcycle guy would do. After dyno, change the oil again to what was going to be used. Different areas of the country that the engine were being shipped to would use different weights. Most common was 20-40 Pennzoil, but this was back in the 80's.
 
ALLAN said:
...In my previous post I came up with a couple automotive sites for engine break in procedure, show a credable automotive site that preaches a hard break-in procedure for a non race engine and then it might be a little more convincing.
Click to expand...
I'm with Mark on not babying the engine. Here's how BadAss Racing Engines does it: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]There are a few steps that must be taken when starting a brand new engine. By far, the most critical and important thing is breaking-in the cam. Upon initial start-up, the engine MUST be run for 15 to 20 minutes at about 1,500 to 2,000 RPM. This seats the lifters to the cam and vise verse. If you are using double or triple valve springs, you MUST remove the inner springs and break-in the cam using only the outer springs or you will surely end-up with a flat cam! Roller cams do not need to be broken-in, but ALL flat tappet cams must. Do NOT break-in your cam with non-detergent oil! This is old school and these days, you can't even get good non-detergent engine oil. Use a good, high grade oil like Valvoline 20w-50 or straight 30 wt., Castrol 20w-40 or Kendall. Once the cam has been broken-in, you can re-install the inner springs (if you're running them) and do all of the usual things like set the timing, adjust the carb and idle, etc. It's always a good idea to have a garden hose handy when breaking-in cams because there's usually a large air pocket in the cooling system and running an engine at 2,000 RPM for 20 minutes can cause it to heat up. Just spray the radiator down while the engine is running and it will help keep things cool.

The second part of breaking-in an engine isn't really that important. I don't believe in driving under 60 MPH or keeping the revs below 4,000 RPM for the first 500 miles. What I usually recommend is that after the cam is broken-in, go drive up a hill a couple of times, slowing and accelerating as you go up. This builds-up heat and puts a variable load on the engine which helps seat the rings. [censored]-footin' a new engine can cause the cylinders to glaze and the rings may never seat properly. As far as revving the engine? Go for it! You don't think we build race engines and drive them for 500 or 1,000 miles before we rev them up do you? Heck no! As soon as the cam is broken-in, it's at the red line, going down the track! What you want to avoid on street engines besides [censored]-footin' around is getting on the highway and going the same speed for extended periods of time. It doesn't matter if it's 40MPH or 70MPH, just don't hold it there. Instead, vary your speed, pass a few people and then slow down for a bit, and then speed back up. This varies the engine load and helps things seat-in better. Be sure to change your oil and filter after the first hundred or so miles because when an engine breaks-in, little tiny, fine particles of metal are wearing-off inside and floating around in the oil. This is all pert of the break-in process and is totally normal.[/QUOTE]Now, whether or not you think they're credible is up to you. They've been around for a while and if they had a bad rep, you'd think they wouldn't be able to keep their shop open being only 10 minutes from Sears Point. YMMV.
 
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