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TR4/4A Basic Wiring Question
- Thread starter bammons
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Just tested the starter. Nothing. attached positive from battery to post with bypass wire off. Nothing. Same thing but touched the bypass wire to the post as well. Nothing. Put bypass ring on post and attached positive clamp. Nothing. I can turn (with resistance) it by hand. So can it be repaired by a altenator shop or is it trash? Bruce
Decided to turn the motor by hand. Spark plugs are out, squirted a little oil in each cylinder. Could not hardly get it to turn but then it did and I got a "click" noise. On each rotation it comes to a place that it get very hard to turn and when I force it harder (by hand) I get a "click" noise (sounds like a loud spark). I rebuilt this motor myself (first time) (machine shop would not build a wet sleeve motor). So I probably burned up the starter and things are going downhill it appears. Bruce
Geo I don't see this ground cable in the Moss catalogue? I'm going to jack up my car and see if there is even a ground cable there? Is it possible that I've been driving all these years without one. Sometimes the starter seems a little slow on cranking yet tests good on the bench. Could this lack of ground cause that? Karl
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Bruce
Don't get ahead of things on the "going downhill" theme. A generator/alternator shop should be able to diagnose the fault in the starter. When you can get it started, then see about the engine.
Bob
Don't get ahead of things on the "going downhill" theme. A generator/alternator shop should be able to diagnose the fault in the starter. When you can get it started, then see about the engine.
Bob
Ok my problems are multiplying. In turning the engine by hand I realized my distributor was turning as well. I have turned the engine by hand before so I am not sure what is going on now. The vacuum line is preventing it from turning any further. Any ideas? Bruce
Geo Hahn
Yoda
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Sounds like you need to check the basics.
The distributor clamp may be loose. Could that click have been the distributor snapping past the vacuum line you mention? That would have possibly occurred on every other engine rotation though you said the click was every rotation.
I'd be tempted to remove the distributor and valve cover and try to observe what is binding (if anything). the valves can be removed from the equation by removing the rocker arm.
The distributor clamp may be loose. Could that click have been the distributor snapping past the vacuum line you mention? That would have possibly occurred on every other engine rotation though you said the click was every rotation.
I'd be tempted to remove the distributor and valve cover and try to observe what is binding (if anything). the valves can be removed from the equation by removing the rocker arm.
Geo Hahn
Yoda
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Bakerman8888
Freshman Member
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Duplicate post. Can’t delete. So instead:
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Bakerman8888
Freshman Member
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With the internal solenoid you might get strange activity on the bench. Wiring:
Neg jumper cable or heavy wire to battery neg
Heavy positive to positive battery.
Imtermittient smaller wire to simulate your crank wire from the spade terminal and keep it loose; touch it to positive battery terminal. All the magic should happen.
Not sure on these particular starters, but there are generally 2 circuits in a starter. One pulls the gear into the flywheel and the other is the crank circuit that makes it start the car. With an external solenoid scenario this is usually all done inside the starter: solenoid gives the 12v and away it goes. With an integrated solenoid, this wiring can get a bit more complex, and the regular test method of jumping straight to 12v can give bad results because the starter needs the internal solenoid to close to complete the main circuit.
Bench test first; if you find it faulty, AND BPNW will not help you out (I’d frankly be surprised, they’re good people over there) then bring it to a starter/ alternator repair guy. Your local club probably has a list of 3 or 4 guys who still do this kind of work. It really sounds like high resistance somewhere in the main starter circuit (probably a crimp or break in the cable down to the starter during the restoration), either from some loose connection inside the starter or a bad internal solenoid. But the bench is the first step for sure.
Neg jumper cable or heavy wire to battery neg
Heavy positive to positive battery.
Imtermittient smaller wire to simulate your crank wire from the spade terminal and keep it loose; touch it to positive battery terminal. All the magic should happen.
Not sure on these particular starters, but there are generally 2 circuits in a starter. One pulls the gear into the flywheel and the other is the crank circuit that makes it start the car. With an external solenoid scenario this is usually all done inside the starter: solenoid gives the 12v and away it goes. With an integrated solenoid, this wiring can get a bit more complex, and the regular test method of jumping straight to 12v can give bad results because the starter needs the internal solenoid to close to complete the main circuit.
Bench test first; if you find it faulty, AND BPNW will not help you out (I’d frankly be surprised, they’re good people over there) then bring it to a starter/ alternator repair guy. Your local club probably has a list of 3 or 4 guys who still do this kind of work. It really sounds like high resistance somewhere in the main starter circuit (probably a crimp or break in the cable down to the starter during the restoration), either from some loose connection inside the starter or a bad internal solenoid. But the bench is the first step for sure.
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Bruce has enough confusing stuff on the plate, so lets clarify the "2 circuits" thing. First, old starters have a bendix assembly. The gear that engages the flywheel is on threads and when the armature turns, the bendix starter drive gear climbs the threads and engages the flywheel ring gear. When the armature stops, a spring pushes the movable gear back to retracted position. Modern starters have only one electromagnetic circuit, not two, but it does two things. It makes a connection of the high amperage cables like the solenoid on your old TR. And, when the plunger is moved by the electromagnetism, it pulls a lever that pushes the starter drive gear into the flywheel ring gear.
Bob
Bob
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Your alternator is connected to the crankshaft by a v-belt (fan belt). It would be strange if it didn't turn with the crankshaft. I do not know about the click. The distributor and alternator are not related to each other.
Bob
Bob
Sorry Guys I meant my distributor not my alternator. My distributor turns in a counter-clockwise direction when I turn the crankshaft in a clockwise direction. Here is where I am at now: 1) It seems my new battery is good 2) My solenoid appears to be good 3) My starter switch and ignition light are working properly although I am not sure if it is exactly the correct switch 4) I believe I fried the starter because of hard resistance from the motor turning (bench test show it is not working) 5) Goal is now to determine why the distributor is turning and why the motor becomes hard to turn when it goes by the vacuum advance (I don't understand this but I am going on what George said above). Bruce
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If you mean that the body of the dist turns, there is a frozen bushing on the dist shaft or (and) loose dist clamp. What do you mean by the motor going by the vacuum advance? You did not burn out the starter from turning resistance in the engine.
Bob
Bob