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Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the block

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healyfan53

healyfan53

Senior Member
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Here a good example of a Tanner bolts & nuts resto

Is it a real gold concours car as it is state in his pitch to sell it ?????

60750_Side_Profile.jpg
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

healyfan53 said:
Is it a real gold concours car as it is state in his pitch to sell it ?????
Click to expand...

Kurt's Healeys are largely done in accordance with the Concours Guidelines, and the standard of work is very high, but to be technically correct, they have not undergone inspection and certification by the Concours Committee.

I have seen many of his restorations and have seen them sell at Barrett-Jackson. Speaking as a long-time concours judge, I believe that his cars would probably be scored about "low gold." The cars would take some deductions for chrome wheels, some are painted non-standard colors, and often a few details are "wrong" or at least not perfect.

It may be a bit misleading to call them "concours gold" since they have not been inspected and certified, but personally I don't really object in most cases because I believe that they would be certified as Gold, if inspected.
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

Beautiful car. I personally don't put a lot of regard as to whether is/was certified "Gold concours" as there are to many variables; such as who/when was the car certified. For instance, if a car was certified "gold" ten years ago, or even twenty years ago and is currently undergoing another restoration, can it be sold as a "Gold Concours" winner?
 
Here we go again, more hysteria about Barrett-Jackson.

That Healey is nice, looks to me like a BT7 with incorrect wheels, color, and a few wrinkles in the top. Go to any Healey Conclave, you'll see plenty of cars like this one.

Sorry, claiming a car is "Concours Gold" without it being actually judged and certificated by qualified judges is fraud. Does not matter who restored it.

Fact is, a "low gold" as Reid would call it could easily be a high silver if it were actually judged. Could you imagine a "Concours Silver" car selling for $160K? Perhaps, if it had Elvis' butt print in the seat.

But reality has nothing to do with the reality TV that is called Barrett-Jackson.

Sorry for the cynicism, but I don't think hyping Healey hysteria is all that helpful for our hobby. (How's THAT for alliteration!)

Bill
Albuquerque
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

Johnny said:
...if a car was certified "gold" ten years ago, or even twenty years ago and is currently undergoing another restoration, can it be sold as a "Gold Concours" winner?
Click to expand...

Sure. It was certified in a certain year, and it will always be certified, no matter what happens to it. If you graudate from college with a degree in French in 1965, and then by 2008 you forget every word of French you ever knew, <u>you still have a degree in French!</u>

It would be foolish to assume that a car that was certified a long time ago would be in the same condition as when it was certified. Therefore any prospective buyer would be wise to ask when it was certified, and what has changed since then. Just common sense stuff.
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

I love the B-J action but would you DRIVE a car like that for fun and watch your investment slip away with each mile? Would you do your own gear box rebuild? Not my cup of tea. But thats why they make 31 flavors of ice cream.
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

I've been on a couple of tours of Tanner's shop and seen these cars in pieces. Starting with the frame they're done to a very high standard but not aimed at concours. He says very few of his buyers are 'Healey people' or are likely to become so.

He tries to make his cars better than new in terms of workmanship, especially adding 'bling' to the paint jobs.

An interesting question is what is one of Kurt's cars like, financially, after 5 years and some actual driving.

I mean is it a used car or is it still special? What percentage of the purchase price will it be worth?

This roadster is part of his ongoing program to explore customized cars rather than just restored cars.
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

Steve, I certainly don't know, but suspet a lot of them don't get driven much, even in 5 years.

It is really an eye catching beautiful car, I have looked at some of the pictures B-J has posted. But as one of the other members alluded to, I would be scared to drive it, for fear of marring its near perfection, heck, I would be scared to have it parked in my garage.
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

Editor_Reid said:
... I believe that his cars would probably be scored about "low gold." The cars would take some deductions for chrome wheels, some are painted non-standard colors, and often a few details are "wrong" or at least not perfect.
Click to expand...

Gold cars must score 95% (of 1000 pts) or above, correct?

Non-standard Healey color is a 50 point deduction.

Chrome wheels are a 10 point deduction.

So with no other deductions the car is at 94%. How could it ever be certified as Gold or claim to be to "gold standards" with non-standard color and chrome wheels?

I have seen non-standard colored Healeys get Bronze (at Lake Tahoe in 2002) but never Gold.

Cheers,
John
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

Without digging out my copy of the scoring sheets, I believe that the committee decided that a car painted a color that was never offered on a Healey would receive a 50-point deduction so that it could not be Gold (unless of course it received NO other deductions in which case it would score 950 points and would be Gold, but that's never going to happen because the car would have to be literally perfect otherwise), and if it is painted a color that was a Healey color that was not offered on the model in question, it was a lesser deduction. So a car like that could be certified gold.

In any case, while Kurt seems to be using the term "Gold" somewhat loosely and is apparently referring to the standard of restoration and not necessarily to strict originality, I've seen many of his restorations and it's hard to knock the quality. They are pretty much as good as any Healeys I've seen, from a quality of work standpoint, and that's what's important to a Barrett-Jackson auction bidder; most of those bidders don't really care if the jack is painted the correct shade of orange-red.
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

Editor_Reid said:
healyfan53 said:
Is it a real gold concours car as it is state in his pitch to sell it ?????
Click to expand...

Kurt's Healeys are largely done in accordance with the Concours Guidelines, and the standard of work is very high, but to be technically correct, they have not undergone inspection and certification by the Concours Committee.

I have seen many of his restorations and have seen them sell at Barrett-Jackson. Speaking as a long-time concours judge, I believe that his cars would probably be scored about "low gold." The cars would take some deductions for chrome wheels, some are painted non-standard colors, and often a few details are "wrong" or at least not perfect.

It may be a bit misleading to call them "concours gold" since they have not been inspected and certified, but personally I don't really object in most cases because I believe that they would be certified as Gold, if inspected.
Click to expand...

I would like to think that if you represent a car as "concours", you should have the proper certification to back up that statement. If you are a doctor, you do, and should, have the proper certification to put the "MD" next to your name. Should a "letter" go out to Barret & Jackson that this car is not Concours as far as the Healey Club is concerned without being inspected at a "Haeley event/show?? I think it should or otherwise it is not factual.
(my two cents)
Patrick
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

What M. Tanner say's or Barret Jackson say's about the car is:

Quote :This vehicle has been restored to concours quality per Austin-Healey Gold Concours standards with absolute originality and authenticity in mind.

Now, new standards in the air , maybe someone from the concours delegation should advise them of our spec. for gold concours classification

Maybe they have a old book with old standard

Absolutely right Patrick probably not even bronze if we had the car in hand. Anyway it a nice looking car and it will go i'll say close to 65K
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

glemon said:
Steve, I certainly don't know, but suspet a lot of them don't get driven much, even in 5 years.

It is really an eye catching beautiful car, I have looked at some of the pictures B-J has posted. But as one of the other members alluded to, I would be scared to drive it, for fear of marring its near perfection, heck, I would be scared to have it parked in my garage.
Click to expand...

Yeah, what's up with that. I drive my car all the time. A lot of people comment to me; what you wrote above. "I'd be scared to drive it." I tell them, I try not to live in fear.

These cars are fun to drive. And isn't that really why we have them? I kid with my friends, I don't make the kind of money to buy a car, restore it and let it sit in my garage. I want to enjoy the money I spent. Do I drive it? Like I stole it, lol. That's why I installed the clear bra on the front. No more rock chips and I'm sure it will protect me from a head on accident, right?

Roger
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

Patrick67BJ8 said:
Should a "letter" go out to Barret & Jackson that this car is not Concours as far as the Healey Club is concerned without being inspected at a "Haeley event/show?? I think it should or otherwise it is not factual.
(my two cents)
Patrick
Click to expand...

Well, the Concours Committee is a non-club entity. It is an independent organization, so it would be out of place for a club to write such a letter.

A better solution - if this needs "solving" - would be for Curt Arndt, the chairman of the committee, to contact Kurt to ask him to stop saying that his cars are concours gold. Or maybe offering to inspect them and certify them for expenses...
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

Editor_Reid said:
Patrick67BJ8 said:
Should a "letter" go out to Barret & Jackson that this car is not Concours as far as the Healey Club is concerned without being inspected at a "Haeley event/show?? I think it should or otherwise it is not factual.
(my two cents)
Patrick
Click to expand...

Well, the Concours Committee is a non-club entity. It is an independent organization, so it would be out of place for a club to write such a letter.

A better solution - if this needs "solving" - would be for Curt Arndt, the chairman of the committee, to contact Kurt to ask him to stop saying that his cars are concours gold. Or maybe offering to inspect them and certify them for expenses...
Click to expand...
Both options sound good to me. If I'm buying a Healey to show that's advertised as "concours", I expect it to "place" in a national Healey meet where's there's concours judging. Wouldn't anyone?
Patrick
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

When this topic was org'ly posted I meant to say something but got FAR to busy to do so!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/angel.gif

This has been a topic on the autox Healeys List and lots of what has been said here was also on The List.

IIRC, I saw at least 10 things just in the engine bay wrong and some one else pointed out that the outer rockers are the square or "flat bottom" ones. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer.gif

And yes, I used to be a BJ-7/9 judge.

It might be real iffy if if even makes Silver!!!

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif
Ed
 
Re: Barret J. vs Gold concours BT7 1960 on the blo

healyfan53 said:
What M. Tanner say's or Barret Jackson say's about the car is:

Quote :This vehicle has been restored to concours quality per Austin-Healey Gold Concours standards with absolute originality and authenticity in mind.
Click to expand...

If Kurt's real market is "non-Healey" people, it seems his marketing efforts are deceitful at best, since absolute originality and authenticity do not overlap what he does in many ways. Maybe he just wants the pricing that comes with those attributes? I am in sales myself (not auto), and this kind of approach gives off the wrong smell in my opinion. Still, nice looking car.

As for what happens to his cars, there is a nice looking over-priced one sitting in the local Masarati dealer's showroom since early summer. It was not driven much before being traded in.
 
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