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Balancing Wire Wheels - While mounted on the car

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mrdibbles

mrdibbles

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Hey Guys-
I just wanted to post that I finally got around to trying something I'd been wanting to do for a long time.

My 1960 AH 3000 had new tires and new wires added about a decade ago and since then they've traveled about 2K miles (maybe 3K). I had the wheels balanced (with the tires) back when I installed them and it was a bit of a chore (in San Diego) finding a shop to do the job.

As you're likely aware the "modern" computer spin balancer needs an adapter to mount tires on wire wheels. This process isn't ideal, for these old British wire wheels, and while I suppose you might get lucky (and have them balance your wheels perfectly) I had problems. My problem... the car would wobble at 60-65mph (or at least it was at those speeds where it was most noticeable).

Sadly I've lived with this wobble ever since, mostly because I don't drive that speed anyway, and chalked it up to "skuttle shake" (or just some other nuance of the car).

The other day I finally made the local calls I'd been meaning to make (now living in Austin TX) to find an "old school" tire and wheel guy that could spin balance the tires <span style="text-decoration: underline">while mounted to the car</span>. $72 bucks later and my car is wobble-free. I mean... it was a like a minor miracle. The difference is night and day.

I mention all of this on the hope of helping someone that might be experiencing what I was. Spin balancing while the wheels are on the car is an art, a dying art at that, and most tire shops won't do it.

The beauty of balancing your wheels in this manner is that you balance not just the tire and wire wheel but also all of the other parts that rotate (spinner, hub, drum, etc...).

Anyway... you might want to try it.
Regards,
Matt-
P.S. 2011 marked the 35th year we've owned this 1960 AH 3000 and it turned 51 in September!
 
I am surprised that they would deal with 10 year old tires (they would probably have legal responsibility). They are dangerous. I certainly would not be driving at speeds with old tires.
 
The post is not about the age of the tires. If it were I would have titled my post "Should I drive around on tires that are 10 years old".
 
mrdibbles said:
Hey Guys-
I just wanted to post that I finally got around to trying something I'd been wanting to do for a long time.

My 1960 AH 3000 had new tires and new wires added about a decade ago and since then they've traveled about 2K miles (maybe 3K). I had the wheels balanced (with the tires) back when I installed them and it was a bit of a chore (in San Diego) finding a shop to do the job.

As you're likely aware the "modern" computer spin balancer needs an adapter to mount tires on wire wheels. This process isn't ideal, for these old British wire wheels, and while I suppose you might get lucky (and have them balance your wheels perfectly) I had problems. My problem... the car would wobble at 60-65mph (or at least it was at those speeds where it was most noticeable).

Sadly I've lived with this wobble ever since, mostly because I don't drive that speed anyway, and chalked it up to "skuttle shake" (or just some other nuance of the car).

The other day I finally made the local calls I'd been meaning to make (now living in Austin TX) to find an "old school" tire and wheel guy that could spin balance the tires <span style="text-decoration: underline">while mounted to the car</span>. $72 bucks later and my car is wobble-free. I mean... it was a like a minor miracle. The difference is night and day.

I mention all of this on the hope of helping someone that might be experiencing what I was. Spin balancing while the wheels are on the car is an art, a dying art at that, and most tire shops won't do it.

The beauty of balancing your wheels in this manner is that you balance not just the tire and wire wheel but also all of the other parts that rotate (spinner, hub, drum, etc...).

Anyway... you might want to try it.
Regards,
Matt-
P.S. 2011 marked the 35th year we've owned this 1960 AH 3000 and it turned 51 in September!
Click to expand...
Several years ago I used to have the wheels on my cars balanced while they were on the car, Healey excluded, and I think that they balance best because the weight of your brakedrum, etc., is balanced with the whole wheel. The only precaution is that you must mark the wheel and drum when removing the the wheel from the car to ensure it is placed back in the same position as when you removed it or you'll lose the balance.
 
Mr Dibbles,

I am glad you posted this for I always believed it was possible to balance tires with the rims while on the car.

I came up with this notion myself for one day, I had my car off the floor and resting completely on the suspension points and decided to start her up and see how it transmission was behaving in all gears. Realize I did this because I still haven't had my brakes and clutch hydraulics redone, so I was unable to drive it just yet.

One trick if not the one your friend was using, is to have the rear wheel spinning and chalk off along the tire thread or [maybe] the outer part of the rim (and that's providing it is not out-of-round, of course). Then add the proper weight opposite and test again.

I would like to know just how your balancing was done. This is the idea running through my head, anyway.

Any taker's on this idea?!
 
Rick is right for the front wheels. In my case they did exactly that with the fronts but the back wheels were spun with the car jacked up and in gear (running). I believe he said they ran it up to about 40MPH free-spinning (which he said is in the neighborhood of 90MPH if the car's wheels were on pavement).
 
Okay Rick,

Got that for the front wheels. But just for curiosity, why not use the rear axle as your motor?

It would mean unmounting and mounting all wheels one at a time, but it would eliminate the need of a seperate motor or apparatus.

Good article, BTW.

Paul

Addendum: With the article above, I accidentally skipped over the part about how the rear wheel axle creates inertia and bearing issues at high speed and I do recall that happening to my car slightly when I was accelerating with the car off the floor. At what speed the wheels were spinning I cannot tell. So now I wonder if it's possible to control the inertia in some way. I guess removing the tire from the opposite side with only add to the inertia and stress of the rear axle.

As a homemade idea without the use of a motor is (conceptually), creating a fixed vertical spindle (thick wood broom stick with a pointed top) with a multi dimensional concentric cone over it (also could be made of wood). The wire wheel would fix over the best suit concentric ring and you would turn the wheel by hand fast enough to create possible gyration. Possible??

When I had my new tires mounted, the balancing was all done. So for the moment, I hope when I do get to drive it at higher speeds, I will not have balancing issues. Otherwise, I would consider the above approach.
 
Has anyone tried those microballs that you put into a tire? They are supposed to spin to the outer circumference and centrifically balance the wheel-tire-hub as one. Since they fall back to the bottom of the tire when the spinning stops, they balance each time the car moves, improving as speed increases. I saw this on a truck/RV site, but never knew of anyone who actually used it. Thanks, Bob
 
Nope But it sounds like it should work. However, I wonder if there is a wear factor here in the tyre????
 
FWIW, I had it done on my BJ8 and was disappointed. There wasn't much if any improvement, but I'd already had the drums balanced so maybe there wasn't much to gain. Still a bit of shake around 55-60.
 
Bob_Spidell said:
Still a bit of shake around 55-60.
Click to expand...

That's the speed my BJ8 would shake (scuttle I thought) balanced the rear drums and the problem disappeared for good.
 
mrdibbles said:
The post is not about the age of the tires. If it were I would have titled my post "Should I drive around on tires that are 10 years old".
Click to expand...


---------------- :iagree:
 
Yes it was available, used on wire wheels and popular at the better tyre shops . However. the little portable electric wheel spinners and the balancing hardware seem to have vanished.---Keoke
 
I've had it done on my Lotus a few times now, due to the way the mags were centered, or not centered, by the straight shank wheel nuts and the light front end of the car. I've since had the conical inserts installed so the wheels will now center and can be balanced normally.

Note also, that alot of the wheel balancing machines have two settings on the balance, and normally they will balance only on the coarse setting. Last balance job I had them do the fine setting, and it seemed to work better.

On the healey, I've also had the disk rotor/hub and the rear brake drums separately balanced. The brake drums were so far off they had to drill the edge and grind the outer rim down substantially. Amazing.

But for the healey, since most of us aren't planning on doing track days, wouldn't normal bubble balancing be sufficient?? Has anyone purchased a small bubble balancer and tried that?

Jerry Rude
BJ8
Lotus TCS Europa
 
HealeyRick said:
PKMH,

Old school spin balancing is done with an electric motor that drives the wheels while they are mounted on the car. Here's a good description: https://www.glenngoodspeed.com/volvo/WheelBalancing.htm
Click to expand...

Good post Rick, and a super link. I might just have to try and make one of those. I know there's shops around that will true a tire and wheel but I'm sure they charge a lot. The author said it took him about 45 minutes to true, then balance a wheel, but in the long run it was worth the time and effort.
 
"But for the healey, since most of us aren't planning on doing track days, wouldn't normal bubble balancing be sufficient?? Has anyone purchased a small bubble balancer and tried that?"



That appears to be the concept I was trying to describe, but I am still trying to figure out if you place a tire on and spin or is it used as a kind of scale where tire would lean and then the weights are used. I've heard of both.
 
pkmh said:
"But for the healey, since most of us aren't planning on doing track days, wouldn't normal bubble balancing be sufficient?? Has anyone purchased a small bubble balancer and tried that?"



That appears to be the concept I was trying to describe, but I am still trying to figure out if you place a tire on and spin or is it used as a kind of scale where tire would lean and then the weights are used. I've heard of both.
Click to expand...

Since you're in Jersey, you might save some time and trouble having these guys do your balancing: https://www.eurotire.com/index.htm I've read good reports of their work on wire wheels
 
That is where I had my wheels done. In Jersey and close to me, they are in Fairfield. Yes, they did a fine job.

Still, having a working knowledge of how to balance wheels is valuable and I like doing some things myself if so inclined. That and alignment.

At this moment I have a spare wire wheel eurotire said was bad (out of round). I am in the process of correcting myself, or enough so I can use it as a safe spare. I just straightened some spokes which are bent. The next step is to tighten up on many spokes that are loose (or what I call being "out of tune").
 
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