TR2/3/3A Bad Water Pump

[JFS]

My new water pump from TRF doesn't fit. The three mounting holes do not line up. The old pump came off easily and goes back on just as easily . The old pump has PC11A in the casting, the new one has LUCAS in its casting and the sticker on the box says made in Taiwan. . Visually, it looks the same. I called TRF's service number and was given a tech dept. number to call, but no one answers. I have dealt with TRF since Charles began his business and have always received good products and good service; I hope this is an anomaly.

 

[TR3driver]

Did you try it in all 3 orientations? The holes are not evenly spaced, it only fits one way. The pump I got from TRF a few years back fit fine, but I don't recall it saying 'Lucas' on it.

I would try calling back the service number (actually any number that answers the phone) and insisting on being transferred to someone that can help you. If they give you any grief, ask to talk to Albert or John Swauger (sp?).

 

[JFS]

Randall, I tried it with the weep hole at the bottom like the old one was mounted. I"ll pull the pulley to change the single bolt and see if that makes a difference. I'll also call TRF again.

 

[Geo Hahn]

On the original pumps the correct position was more obvious because you had to have the grease zerk on top. On the repros I have seen (that lack the zerk) the boss for it was still there in the casting and is a clue to orientation.

 

[JFS]

Found that the pump DOES FIT with the weep hole on the passenger right side. This does not locate the grease zerk casting in the same location as the previous pump either. I got through to the TRF tech line and was told that the weep hole orientation makes no difference. (I still think a bottom drain hole makes more sense. I should have trial fit it before inserting the bolt and pressing on the pulley.) So, I did NOT get a bad water pump from TRF.

 

[charleyf]

Randall,
FYI JOhn Swauger retired about six months ago. Leaving Albert as the day time manager.
Charley

 

[TR3driver]

Thanks, Charley, I didn't know that. I wish John all the best, but it's a shame to lose his knowledge and wisdom.

But even if he is not available, I suspect that just asking for him would still impress the low-level person who answers the phone.

I forgot about that stupid bolt; replaced mine with a stud many years ago when I was using one of the aftermarket pumps with integral pulley.

 

[TR4nut]

Randall,
FYI JOhn Swauger retired about six months ago. Leaving Albert as the day time manager.
Charley

And I think Dave Hagenbuch retired around November last year as well.

 

[Popeye]

And I think Dave Hagenbuch retired around November last year as well.

The retirements worry me; however it seems TRF has some good "younger" blood. I've been there a few times to pick up parts, and they seem to have some steady folks without gray hair that answer the phone. And while not as technically experienced as Albert, John and Dave, they still seem to know their stuff (information tends to agree with what I find searching BCF, for example). I hope they grow with the company and especially support the "reverse engineering" projects at TRF.

 

[TomMull]

Found that the pump DOES FIT with the weep hole on the passenger right side. This does not locate the grease zerk casting in the same location as the previous pump either. I got through to the TRF tech line and was told that the weep hole orientation makes no difference. (I still think a bottom drain hole makes more sense. I should have trial fit it before inserting the bolt and pressing on the pulley.) So, I did NOT get a bad water pump from TRF.

I know that I raise an issue that has been flogged to death many times but I'll resurrect it anyway. It makes no difference because they have pallet loads of them cast up or drilled out in the wrong orientation. I'm not bashing TRF, this seems to be the the way things are done across the industry in general. These same reproduction pumps are available from a variety of sources. Will it work? Sure it will, but is it right? Not in my opinion. The dilemma, or excuse, depending on how you look at it, is that a proper rebuilt, or a kit for that matter, is three times the price, if you can get one.
A note with the pump, explaining the orientation, would have been nice too, since a bolt has to go in before the pulley goes on. Of course, that would only work if these replacement pumps were not oriented randomly.
I do wonder how much more it would have cost to get these right?
Tom

 

[Geo Hahn]

...I do wonder how much more it would have cost to get these right?

I don't know, but likely the figure would be expressed in Yuans.

It is a conundrum as customers' shopping behavior encourages vendors to compete on price and something has to give to make that happen.

 

[charleyf]

I know that I raise an issue that has been flogged to death many times but I'll resurrect it anyway. It makes no difference because they have pallet loads of them cast up or drilled out in the wrong orientation. I'm not bashing TRF, this seems to be the the way things are done across the industry in general. These same reproduction pumps are available from a variety of sources. Will it work? Sure it will, but is it right? Not in my opinion. The dilemma, or excuse, depending on how you look at it, is that a proper rebuilt, or a kit for that matter, is three times the price, if you can get one.
A note with the pump, explaining the orientation, would have been nice too, since a bolt has to go in before the pulley goes on. Of course, that would only work if these replacement pumps were not oriented randomly.
I do wonder how much more it would have cost to get these right?
Tom

Tom,
And now you come to the Investment program at TRF. Charles uses part of that money to engineer accurate parts to either replace parts like being discussed here or parts that people want but the molds have been lost. etc.. So by letting TRF know that particular part that they may be selling is not correct it can get elevated to the list of those that need new production. But the cost is high so that has to come into it. A good example is the TR3/4 fuel pump sold by TRF. Lots of problems with the new pumps out so TRF reengineered it back to original looks and functioning. Unfortunately the cost is really high but the pump is supposed to be very reliable. Time will tell if the gamble of redoing the pump will pay for itself. Will people pay the higher price to get a reliable fuel pump or will they go for the cheaper one. Or in my case will they rebuild the older ones.
No I do not work for TRF, but I am an investor with them. I do buy most of my parts from them, but I do look at the price of parts at Moss as well and do buy occasionally from them.
Charley