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Bad Bearings - How Galling!

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healeygal

Jedi Warrior
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I'm leaving town Sunday morning and plan to deal with this problem after the new year, but thought I'd pose the question now and maybe get some responses to ponder during my time away.

A few thousand miles after the engine being rebuilt, the rod bearings were galled pretty badly and had to be replaced. Nothing was done to the crank. How likely is it that there is a problem with the crank - should something have been done; are there tests that can be done; are problems likely to appear in the future? Pressure is 40 at idle; 55 at speed; she seems to be using a quart of oil every 300 miles.

When replying, please go slowly, clearly and concisely, keeping in mind that during my introduction to oil change/lube jobs, I was observed trying to lube the brake bleed screw... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

Sharon
BN1
 
Hi Healygal here it is short sweet and simple.

IF THE ROD BEARINGS ARE BAD THE CRANK IS BAD AND THE REBUILDER SHOULD FIX IT. FREE OF CHARGE. Skip
 
Hi Sharon if the engine has been rebuilt a couple of thousand miles ago and you have taken good care of it and the rod bearings are shot, the crank journals were out of round to begin with. The rebuilder should have checked the crank before he built the engine and checked both the rod and main bearing journals. I am curious as to how you found the rod bearings were galled. Did you find metal in the filter or what? A newly rebuilt engine will use a little oil untill the rings seat in their bores but after 3oo or so miles the oil burning should drop to near zero or at most a quart between changes. I am not familiar with the engine man but it sounds like he didn`t do a very good job. Skip
 
[ QUOTE ]
...I am curious as to how you found the rod bearings were galled. Did you find metal in the filter or what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not very scientific (or mechanical), but after a while, the engine didn't sound right.

Sharon
 
Thanks guys!

If there's one thing I've learned from my Healey, it's to constantly watch the gauges, listen for new and unusual noises, and always keep an eye out for a spot to pull over to while heading down the road! In the meantime, I think this month's lesson is going to be learning to develop patience and optimism when faced with frustration and disappointment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Hi Sharon,
I agree with Skip. If the rod bearings failed, it is very likely that the crankshaft was maybe bad to start with & worse now. Something was definitely wrong with the crankshaft or it's fitting to start with. It is likely that an improper rod bearing fit is the cause. This would explain why there was not more oil pressure loss & the high oil consumption. (The extra oil flow through the rod bearings is flooding the oil rings). An intermittant loss of oil pressure could also have caused the problem, as could dirt contamination of the oil system or bearing assemblys.

If your car has the original copper oil feed pipe from oil pump outlet to engine block, the pipe has been known to crack & cause loss of oil pressure, & "could" be intermittent. A replacement braid jacketed flexible oil line is available & is very good insurance.

Also a momentarily sticking open oil pressure relief valve could do this. Engines don't have to run very long without oil pressure to damage something.

It would seem to me that improper parts fit, defective parts, or internal contamination on the rebuild are indicated. There is need for almost surgical cleanliness on a rebuild.

Since there are so many possibilities, the engine needs to be completely pulled down, & "all" parts checked, cleaned & or replaced as needed. I know that this is "bad news", but the engine rebuilder should stand behind the job. If not, find another shop. Don't settle for any partial "fixes". The Fours frequently last well over 100K miles without problems.

Sorry for your problem. It isn't the usual experience.

BTW, have you talked to the engine rebuilder?
D
 
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. Hope your holiday is going well. Today, mine's been a little disconcerting!

Haven't been back or called the mechanic since the rod bearings were changed. The car has been back and forth to the body shop taking care of her one-month checkup and then the paint chip mentioned in my post under Car Care, and I want to/can only deal with one thing at a time! Plan to take care of it next week, and with the replies I've been getting here on the Forum, I may even sound like I know what I'm talking about!

Should make clear re my initial post, the crank was worked on during the rebuild, but nothing done after rod bearing were changed. Don't imagine that changes the recommendations, though?

Sharon
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Dave,
Don't imagine that changes the recommendations, though?
Sharon

[/ QUOTE ]
No it doesn't. There was something else wrong to cause the first bearings to fail. It wasn't fixed when the bearings were replaced. I can't imagine a "reputable" shop not finding the cause of bearing failure the first time.
Good luck,
D
 
Sharon be sure and ask if the rods were resized. This is where they take the end cap off of the connecting rod and machine just a few thousandths off of the mating surfaces of the big end of the connecting rod. This makes the big end of the rod now smaller than it should be when it is bolted togther. Then the hole is rebored to the correct size. If this is done and the crank journals are ground and the correct bearings are used you now have 2 perfectly mated parts. The rebuilder should reassemble everything with a good assembly lube (50%motor oil 50%STP) and like Dave says be a fanatic about cleanliness during assembly. Skip
 
Skip and Dave,

Thanks again for all the info. Truly invaluable. Will print it out, study it and proceed into action after the first of the year.

Sharon
 
Hello Sharon,
Hi Sharon,
When the replacement rod bearings were put in, was there a plastigage test? Plastigage provides a fast and accurate way to check bearing clearances. Plastigage is a special extruded plastic thread of a definite diameter with accurately controlled crush properties.
Anyway, when the mechanic replaced the bearings what visual condition were the journals in?
Your oil pressure sounds good to me!
I use oil, doesn't drip, don't know where it goes...
While the block and head aren't too impressive, the Healey crankshaft holds up pretty well.


Lou
BN1
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/savewave.gif Skip it reportedly was rod bearing failue.

Hi Skip, you would think that if the rods required resizing the block might have required line boring too but it was not done .Basically I think a lousy set of bearings were used in the rebuild either a bad set in a lot,it does happen, or a corner cutter product.Most shops do not do their own crank work but have reliable machine shops that perform the turning and polishing for them.--FWIW---Keoke
 
Sorry to hear of your engine problems. It must be very frustrating to have problems with a car after spending so much time and money expecting years of enjoyment, instead having to re-do others work. I don't have any suggestions, others can do so much better. I do have an interesting story that is related. During my engine rebuild I had a company doing the rebuild that was very knowlegeable on Healey engines. During the crankshaft resurfacing procedure (BTW it takes a special machine to do that, looks like a huge quilting machine with sand belts extending down and the crank resting below.) Anyway, the shop was flooded during the huge '93 flood you may have heard about in the St Louis area. The end result was that yes my crank was rescued (not damaged) but later on I discovered when the work resumed that only some of the journals were turned and some were not. Upon reassembly it was easy to find this out as the crankshaft wouldn't turn at all with certain bearings in place. Very galling indeed. Of course the shop re-ground the crank or re-surfaced where necessary free of charge. BTW the shop never re-opened.
I truly hope all works out for you.
 
Hi Keoke I agree with you but she didn`t say if it was the rods or mains that were bad. If the rods were resized the main bores wouldn`t need align boring. If I were Healeygal I would get a first class shop to check the crank,block and rods and get a really good shop to build the engine and give a written gurantee. Skip
 
Hi Lou,

Don't know if it was plastigaged. Will inquire when I call the shop.

Johnny,

Thanks for the sympathy!

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Keoke I agree with you but she didn`t say if it was the rods or mains that were bad. If the rods were resized the main bores wouldn`t need align boring. If I were Healeygal I would get a first class shop to check the crank,block and rods and get a really good shop to build the engine and give a written gurantee. Skip

[/ QUOTE ]

Skip,

Just got back from out of town. Yes, it was the rod bearings. The engine had a knock when I accelerated. I took it back to the mechanic for analysis. Inspection done after removing oil pan revealed that all 4 rod bearings were galled and were then replaced.

So does this mean rebuilding the rebuild?

Sharon
 
Hi Sharon whatever you do get a first class shop to turn the crankshaft and make sure there is a card that comes from the shop that specifies the main and rod journal diameters that they were turned to. It should say something like mains/rods .005 or .010 . Then have the rods resized also if there was a knock I am sure the big ends of at least one of the rods are out of round. Were all of the bearings bad if so it sounds like someone didn`t use the right bearings or did something really wrong. I have never heard of anyone who put new bearings on a crankshaft that had already had problems before you just don`t do that. Skip
 
Wow, what a woman ! Wish my wife liked Healeys. Also wish she listened to the engine and watched gauges. Our Land Cruiser is toast after a water pump failure and driving too long too hot. Well, I have to take some of that back. She did notice the shaking, bad noises from the engine, smoke, and steam coming out the exhaust. At that point she also took notice of the temp gauge reading. Then she turned on the air conditioning to help cool the engine down.

Anyone know how much a new Land Cruiser engine costs ?
 
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