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Are 3-Point Seat Belts Safe in a Healey?

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There is one thing to consider about 3 (or 4) point belts.
If the rear anchor point is lower than shoulder height, the user runs a high risk of a broken shoulder in the event of a front collision.
This is accepted among racers and most racing venues will fail a car for racing in this condition.
I had a wonderful chance to see a Healey recently with factory 3 point belts. Way too low for safety for any driver.
 
I hope this question is not off topic. When restoring my BJ7, I put lap belts in for the front seats only. The question I had at the time, which I still have not really gotten an answer on, is whether we really need to have seatbelts installed at all (except for personal preference).

Are they required for the back seats?

Our cars were built before the laws requiring them in 1968. My car was built in 1962. Seat belt were just starting to become available as an option at that time.

I am not considering taking the seat belts out, but curious what the thoughts are on this.

Thanks for all out the help from the forum!!! Happy Thanksgiving!!!
 
BG 62AH said:
I hope this question is not off topic. When restoring my BJ7, I put lap belts in for the front seats only. The question I had at the time, which I still have not really gotten an answer on, is whether we really need to have seatbelts installed at all (except for personal preference).

Are they required for the back seats?
Click to expand...

"New Jersey’s seat belt law requires the motorist, front-seat passenger and children under 18 years old to be belted (N.J.S.A. 39:3-76.2f). Non-complianceis a primary offense. A police officer can stop a motorist solely for a violation ofthe seat belt law. The law also expands the definition of passenger vehicle toinclude vans, pickup trucks and utility vehicles. Under a secondary law, all backseat occupants, 18 years of age and older, are required to buckle up. Unbuckledback seat passengers can be issued a summons when the vehicle they areriding in is stopped for another violation.The exemptions are any passenger vehicle manufactured before July 1, 1966,a passenger vehicle that is not required to be equipped with seat belt systemsunder federal law and a physical or medical reason, verified in writing by alicensed physician, that makes the motorist or passenger unable to wear a seatbelt. (N.J.S.A. 39:3-76.2g)" https://www.state.nj.us/mvc/pdf/Licenses/Driver Manual/Chapter_3.pdf
 
Hi Bill,

As Rick has already stated and If I remember correct, NJ's first Seat Belts law was enacted in around 1984 and I am not sure that the initial law or second law established seatbelt requirements retroactively to cars manufacture from 1966. Since your car was manufactured prior to 1966, you are not required to install them although we agree it would be best that you do.

When I first purchased my 1964 BJ8, I traded a mildly customized and hopped up 1958 Pontiac convertible. Since street racing was something I did engage in at that time, for a more practical reason, I installed lap belts in my Pontiac to keep my bottom planted behind the steering wheel on slippery vinyl covered seats. When moving to the Healey, lap belts were one of my first additions but my motivation, at the time, was to satisfy the requirement established by Lime Rock Park for participation in Track Sessions.

Keep in mind that in 1964, seat belts were just beginning to be put in cars by their owners and, for the most part, it was not a popular installation.

My recollections of the time,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
Hi Bob,

I have never heard of the single belt you describe. Do you have a picture or reference I can see what you are talking about?

Thanks,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
Rick, Ray, and Bob,

Thanks for the info on the seat belts, it was a point of question for me. Just for reference, I always wanted to know.

Rick, thank you for the technical response.

Ray, thank you and it is great to hear from you again -- I have not had a chance to connect with you and Mike. I hope you guys are doing well.

I hope that everyone had a great Thanksgiving Holiday.....
 
wheelwright said:
There is one thing to consider about 3 (or 4) point belts.
If the rear anchor point is lower than shoulder height, the user runs a high risk of a broken shoulder in the event of a front collision.
This is accepted among racers and most racing venues will fail a car for racing in this condition.
I had a wonderful chance to see a Healey recently with factory 3 point belts. Way too low for safety for any driver.
Click to expand...

The question not answered is whether the tradeoff of a broken shoulder is compensated for by additional protection against the steering column.
 
Steve,

As I see it, it is all a mater of frequency. If I frequently run into things and each time I break my shoulder but only occasionally crush my chest with the steering wheel, the question will become mute as I loose my license and Healey for bad driving.

Since our Healeys were built for another time and space, and from the intelligence presented in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that either belt in the right accident will protect and in the wrong accident will harm. However, as often mentioned, when I'm driving my Healey I'm 26 again and my time machine is invulnerable to any harm until it returns me to this present.

Has anyone driven their Healey across the hills on a clear winter day with the top down, snow lightly falling, and the heater blasting?

All the best ... in you own time,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
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As promised ..

IMG_1050.JPGIMG_1051.JPGIMG_1053.JPG
 
Ray, when I drive mine, I'm 18 again and heading off to college with everything that is important to me packed in the car....less cares, less things, more smiles.
 
RAC68 said:
Steve,

Since our Healeys were built for another time and space, and from the intelligence presented in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that either belt in the right accident will protect and in the wrong accident will harm. However, as often mentioned, when I'm driving my Healey I'm 26 again and my time machine is invulnerable to any harm until it returns me to this present.

Has anyone driven their Healey across the hills on a clear winter day with the top down, snow lightly falling, and the heater blasting?

All the best ... in you own time,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
Click to expand...

Ray's post reminds of that famous reference to the Royal Navy of old: "When boats were made of wood and men were made of steel".

Crash survivability was probably not on the list of major design considerations when our cars were built and deciding between two or three-point belts might very well be a Hobson's Choice. BTW notice that the windshield of the car shown in post #32 is cracked on both the driver and passenger sides....
 
Michael Oritt said:
BTW notice that the windshield of the car shown in post #32 is cracked on both the driver and passenger sides....
Click to expand...

The steering wheel didn't fare very well either. I don't see any indication of a belt in the picture with the driver's door open, but it could be hidden. Probably nothing but a full cage with high-backed seats and 6 point harnesses are going to give real good protection in a Healey crash. Some of us here are old enough to remember Masten Gregory who preferred to leap out of his cars just before they crashed.
 
Hi All,

Having no experience with analyzing accidents but there seems to be the apparent absence of obvious blood smear on the cracked windshield or door, I wonder if any occupants were seriously injured or if the pictures were recent to the accident?

What is also surprising is that the Healey looks to have hit something in front and been hit from behind. In both incidents the other vehicles seems to have past over the Healey's frame (also steering box and gas tank) using its bodywork and tires as the primary points of resistance.

Although the damage looks substantial, I wonder if this wasn't the result of a street traffic accident in which, for example, the driver was waiting in a traffic line for a light to change when someone hits him from behind and pushes his vehicle into the car ahead. The rear car had the force.

High speed does not have to be present to inflict this much damage on the bodywork of a Healey and I suspect, if this is the case, repairs could be made with at substantial expense for panel replacements.

As previously mentioned, our Healeys were designed for a time long past and do not do well in any inappropriate encounter with other vehicles. That is not to say they were not designed properly as I believe they were well designed at the time and for that time it was meant to serve ...

Just my thoughts.
I wish you all, all the Good Luck you can handle,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
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