Another Surrey Top Question

[TR4nut]

Okay, I have been whining about not having a surrey top setup for my TR4 - but at this point I am quite seriously trying to hunt one down.

My question is this - are there obvious weaknesses to watch out for with these tops? Is the backlight, for example, very fragile? I'm not clear on how it attaches to the car - are there fixed studs on the frame, and perhaps are these studs a pain to replace?

I know the glass itself is rare but there are plastic substitutes. Are there particular trim pieces that are made out of unobtanium?

Any tips you surrey owners can share would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Randy

 

[TRMark]

I don't think there are any weaknesses, at least I have not encountered any with mine. If I remember correctly there are fixed studs on the frame. If they are broken I assume the usual shop techniques along with carefully chosen words will remedy the situation. Every thing else seems to be available. The only item I see missing in the Moss catalog other than the trim panels (I have supplied a pattern for some forum members) are the cover plates that screw to the backlight frame. A thumbscrew goes through the plate to secure the soft top frame or a bolt for the hard top. I can remove photo and measure the ones on my car. You can probably make the part yourself if you have to.

 

[TR4nut]

Thanks Mark-

Actually, I didn't chime in on that before because you had so graciously offered to send out those templates, but I believe the trim panels can be sourced at Revington:
Revington Surrey Top Part List

There price seems pretty reasonable, probably because it is just a simple piece once the dimensions are worked out. In fact, it looks like they have those cover plates too.

For the backlight, is the frame itself aluminum or similar alloy? Was it ever just steel to your knowledge? I know the center section was both aluminum or steel depending on vintage.

Randy

 

[kodanja]

<span style="color: #3366FF"><span style='font-size: 14pt'> https://www.garrison-grafixx.com/tr6/hardtop.htm </span></span>

 

[TRMark]

The frame is aluminum. I looked at the photo of the cover plates available at Revington. Very nice reproduction. My center piece is steel. The headliner in the centerpiece is the same vinyl type material as the visors, trim panels and the material on the frame.

 

[TR4nut]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] The frame is aluminum.[/QUOTE]

Thanks again-

I was hoping it was aluminum. I was bidding on a setup here in the UK and they incorrectly stated it as being steel. Doesn't matter any more, though, as it looks like someone swooped in early and closed a deal outside of Ebay.
Ebay missed opportunity

Its a pity because as tatty as it was I think with the aluminum backlight mighthave been okay and it looks like this one had the early style aluminum top.

I am going to try my luck with the TR Register crowd here, they have a pretty good for sale section in their monthly magazine.

Randy

 

[Alan_Myers]

Hi Randy,

It might be a long search, since original two-piece hard tops are getting rarer all the time. It took me about two years to finally track down one for my car, once I got serious about it. I was a little picky, because I wanted the aluminum roof panel, as would probably have been original on my '62 (after the first 500 tops, Triumph switched to a steel roof panel). I see you are in England, it will probably be more difficult to find an orignal top there, since the vast majority of the cars that used them were exported. A top would be a bit expensive to ship overseas, but I'm sure that could be done if necessary. There was one selling in Germany, I believe, sometime within the last year.

The original top is a pretty solid setup. The frame is cast aluminum and well engineered to be strong. There are a number of different seals, but they are all available from TRF (and probably others). All the internal trim materials are available except for the headliner bows (that can be made up from simple steel rods) and that side trim panel we've been discussing.

If using the "surrey top" - the phrase really only refers to the accessory part that was offered separate from the hardtop, although many use the term to refer to the entire two-piece hardtop assembly - the support frames seem to be available from a couple sources, or might be fabricated relatively easily if you had a guide and the dimensions. The surrey's vinyl panel is easily found in either black or white.

One area of possible weakness is the trapped nuts that fasten the rigid roof panel to the windshield frame at the front and the backlight frame at the back. The nuts are obviously installed before the roof panel is assembled, so if stripped or ever cross-threaded and twisted in their holder, they will be a bit of a pain to repair or replace.

There were special fasteners used, too. Any replacements need to be chosen carefully, too long a bolt will cause a nasty dent in the roof panel!

Yes, the rear window (backlight) is an expensive item to replace. Get a top complete with a good one, if at all possible.

The door "fuzzies" and seals will need replacement, too. There are longer versions of each used with the hard top is installed on the car.

Except at the front corners, there are studs in the aluminum frame that fit into holes hiding under the cockpit trim of your car. If any of those studs are broken or stripped or bent, they'd be a bugger to remove and replace. So, try to get a top with them installed.

At each front corner, right on the top of the B-post, there is a stud installed into the body to help locate and fasten the backlight frame. These studs seem to not be available from any of the major US vendors, but are pretty standard stuff that might be found at a hardware store.

Depending upon the year/model of your car, you might need to change out the stainless steel trim strips of the rear fenders. TR4 used a shorter strip with the front end hidden under a wider section of the cockpit trim. TR4A and TR250 use a single long piece of s/s trim that goes the full length of the fender. The latter piece is needed on the earlier cars.

There were some aftermarket copies of the Triumph top offered. There are one-piece fiberglass that mimic the look of the original, but don't have the liftoff roof panel. There were "Sebring" tops offered in the SU, which have a black inection modled plastic roof panel, removable, and a fiberglass backlight frame. Today there is a British company offering either two-piece or lightweight "race" one-piece designs, both in fiberglass. Check out https://www.honeybournemouldings.co.uk/. Their prices seem quite reasonable, but I've only seen photos of their products. Someone has already mentioned RevingtonTR, which probably best copies the original design, manufacture and materials in their reporduction tops (even one with a roof panel that's split down the center so it can be stored in the boot!), but be sitting down when you get a price quote!

Cheers!

 

[TR4nut]

Thanks Alan-

For what its worth, I saw that Revington does have those trim pieces, but since you have a template and they look simple I'm not sure it'd be worth it.

Even though the vast number of TR4s were exported, it seems to me that a lot of the surrey tops stayed over here in the UK - probably more popular with the weather around here. I'm only basing this on observed sales - I never saw a top come up for sale in the U.S. but I've seen several here. I haven't given up entirely on the search, but the real issue will be price - I think the surrey is quite popular with the triumph addicts in other parts of Europe.

I admit my want for the surrey is really due to my interest in having a rally clone type of car - I like what you've been doing with yours, and I've seen several over here because of the rally popularity that are really nice. And if I can be brave enough to put side vents in my fenders I think that extra ventilation could really help in the Texas heat.


Randy