And we wonder why schools are going broke.....

[terriphill]

I have had the most FRUSTRATING week. It seems that it's no longer enough that we send home a quarterly report card, or that we spent scads of $$$ for an on-line program where teachers are required to post weekly grade reports but now they have decided to mail out to every single parent interim reports too. The cost to our district of well over 10,000 students is a ridiculous waste of money!

I teach in a classroom with 40 year old lab tables and must pay out of my pocket for any "expendable" supplies )like chemicals, test tubes, and batteries) because they are not in the budget. It makes me want to scream!

I work at a wonderful school with the most dedicated and talented teachers I have ever encountered, but it seems to be "in spite" of our administration...not because of it.

 

[NutmegCT]

Well, after trying for 10 minutes to log in here, and getting "server not responding" ...

Terri - I hear you loud and clear. I worked at a big public university most of my life. About ten years ago the Board of Trustees was sold a bill of goods (as they say). A software company showed them how much more efficient we'd be if all the student and faculty records were managed by a central server, and accessed with a web interface. For the modest sum of $16 million, we spent three years converting, installing and training.

Day of going live, the system crashed. Turned out it was never meant to be used by a large university. It was designed for small company personnel records! We then spent nearly $10 million "fixing" the problems.

I get the impression that "the folks in charge" really don't know much about systems, but they want to impress their constituencies with their desire to "move ahead". Unfortunately they rarely check the details, and they find others to blame for negative outcomes.

Overcrowded classrooms, dilapidated science equipment and minimal humanities supplies, but somehow there's always money for extra curriculars and administrative technology. Jeez, remember when we formed our own teams and played games after school? and it didn't cost anything?

Tom

 

[Brooklands]

In our local district, the new superintendent is the former state director of education. He is dismantling staffs, moving students, and changing plans weekly all in pursuit of more Federal grants, never seeming to consider the actual students or their educations...

It is sad when I remember the stellar schools I attended in the same district. But I also know that so much time is spent working with students whose parents could not care about their children's education. My wife loved teaching for years, but the "teach for the test" mentality drove her to an earlier-than-planned retirement over 5 years ago, and her friends that are still teaching are so unhappy with the changes in that suburban school district. Her school was remodeled, and the only stage in the school where they could have programs was made into a storage closet. The Arts are not mostly ignored as there are no tests for them. Creativity is going to be a lost talent.

 

[terriphill]

What I don't understand is how it got here. I mean schools are local. The people of this city are the "owners" of us. They are our bosses. They decide who runs us, how we are supported. Don't they? Is it because the school board elections have the lowest voter turnout of any elections? And since people don't get involved there (where the hiring and firing is done) that we get poor appointments to the leadership positions? Is it really that people do not want public education and truly would rather pay money for private school tuition that amounts to having a kid in college for 17 years? I mean, if the schools are bad & not doing their jobs, who should be screaming? Isn't it the people of the community?
So, how do I get the people of my community to get involved?

 

[NutmegCT]

Hi Terri - My thought: when people are "comfortable" they usually prefer not to change things, unless they feel threatened.

Ask your neighbors how their kids are doing in school. The usual answer is "fine - they get A's and B's".

But ask them what their kids learned this week. Usually, total silence, altho' I'll bet the parents know how the kids did in soccer, football, basketball, baseball, etc.

Back in the "olden days", it was parents who decided what their kids should learn, not school boards. In the early 19th century, there was one adult in every classroom. That adult was called the school master - not the teacher. Parents provided the books (or whatever) to the child, and frequently talked with their kids about what they learned, to see how they were doing.

When you delegate other folks to make decisions for you, you can blame them when things go wrong. But if you don't know they're going wrong (because you never bothered to check what's really happening), you just keep those folks in place.

One idea: go to a local media outlet (paper, radio, tv, etc.) and just say what you see going on, and how it's hurting kids. Media love reasons for stories, especially local stories with kids involved.

Just my two cents.

Any other ideas out there for requiring kids to actually learn something more than how to answer multiple choice questions?

Tom

 

[tomshobby]

I have taught in the local Technical College. My support for the school system across America has waned, and much more over the last few years. The reason is this. Our school system is geared to producing job seekers when we have a huge surplus of those people and the students know it. What is needed desperately especially at this time are people with the skill and knowledge to start a business.

 

[NutmegCT]

I have taught in the local Technical College. My support for the school system across America has waned, and much more over the last few years. The reason is this. Our school system is geared to producing job seekers when we have a huge surplus of those people and the students know it. What is needed desperately especially at this time are people with the skill and knowledge to start a business.

Tom - sounds like you've had some experience in the public education field. Matter of fact, I used to take classes as Madison Area Technical College back in the day. And parking back then was nearly impossible!

"What is needed desperately especially at this time are people with the skill and knowledge to start a business."

What can we do to increase student skills and knowledge to start a business?

Thanks.
Tom

 

[Brooklands]

The corporate world does not want entrepreneurs. When I started running a territory for a company, that was really what the job entailed, but in latter years with micro-management, improvisation seemed to be frowned upon.

Creativity and improvisation with a financial backing is how new businesses can get started...and not just franchises of companies. Students need to be encouraged to start their own "Mom and Pop" businesses. Possibly an overview of accounting and marketing would help. I am not sure what other items would be needed in a curriculum for starting a business...

 

[PC]

...I worked at a big public university most of my life. About ten years ago the Board of Trustees was sold a bill of goods (as they say). A software company showed them how much more efficient we'd be if all the student and faculty records were managed by a central server, and accessed with a web interface. For the modest sum of $16 million, we spent three years converting, installing and training.

Day of going live, the system crashed. Turned out it was never meant to be used by a large university. It was designed for small company personnel records! We then spent nearly $10 million "fixing" the problems.

I get the impression that "the folks in charge" really don't know much about systems, but they want to impress their constituencies with their desire to "move ahead". Unfortunately they rarely check the details, and they find others to blame for negative outcomes....

If it's any consolation, this is standard operating procedure in the business world too.



pc.

 

[PC]

What I don't understand is how it got here. I mean schools are local. The people of this city are the "owners" of us. They are our bosses. They decide who runs us, how we are supported. Don't they? Is it because the school board elections have the lowest voter turnout of any elections? And since people don't get involved there (where the hiring and firing is done) that we get poor appointments to the leadership positions? Is it really that people do not want public education and truly would rather pay money for private school tuition that amounts to having a kid in college for 17 years? I mean, if the schools are bad & not doing their jobs, who should be screaming? Isn't it the people of the community?
So, how do I get the people of my community to get involved?

I can't speak for your local situation, but perhaps a look at my perspective could offer some (small) insight.

I don't have kids. I have nearly zero exposure to the local public education system(s). I have zero direct involvement with the local public education system(s).

Do I even care how the schools are run? Of course I do. Is there any way for me to make logical, informed decisions regarding how the schools are run? Well...

When my voting voting materials arrived there was a whole list of people with little boxes next to their names. I'd never seen nor heard of any of them. They all had their paragraphs of why they new they deserved my vote. They all said exactly the same thing.

Was this or that person a competent educator? A leader? A bureaucrat? An idiot? As Robot B9 might say, "insufficient data."

I suppose some of the workings of the system(s) are public information. That doesn't mean it's readily available and interpretable, only that if somebody digs deep enough they can find it. Are people in my position really supposed to do that?

When you entrust people with running a system you're relying on the personalities of the players, their beliefs, behaviors, philosophies and skills. How is the voting public supposed to become familiar with them?

Are there opportunities to "sit in" with them as they work? To observe their discussions and debates? To compare their actions to their words? I have neither stumbled across any nor have any been offered to me.

Just how am I supposed to get it right?



pc.

 

[NutmegCT]

PC: <span style="font-style: italic">"When you entrust people with running a system you're relying on the personalities of the players, their beliefs, behaviors, philosophies and skills. How is the voting public supposed to become familiar with them?

Are there opportunities to "sit in" with them as they work? To observe their discussions and debates? To compare their actions to their words? I have neither stumbled across any nor have any been offered to me.

Just how am I supposed to get it right?"</span>

Well said. You pretty well summed up the basics of a democratic people making their own decisions. Just how DO we get it right?

I guess it points to the dilemma we all face, in all elections.

If you're going to vote in a particular election, then take the responsibility yourself to look at what a candidate has done for the last 10 or 20 years (or whatever). How have they dealt with issues in their personal lives, and in their public/business life?

As an aside, think of the millions (billions?) of dollars spent on advertising in the last big national election (a single candidate in California spent $140 million - and lost). Then consider what good that money could have done if spent on what people actually need ... well, pretty depressing. Something tells me the millions spent on advertising didn't result in any new jobs being created, or salary increases for the PR and media people who are fortunate to have jobs. The millions just added to the company's income.

So in sum: if you're given the responsibility to elect someone to an office, then you have to take the responsibility to learn about them on your own. And definitely not from what the PR campaigns have tossed at you.

An interesting book: The Collapse of the Third Republic, by Shirer. He describes what happens to a democracy when the people lose faith in "the system".

Tom

 

[vagt6]

Great Jefferson said it is impossible to have a democracy without an educated populace. He was right (as usual). The fewer educated/informed voters we have, the weaker our republic becomes.

But, too much is blamed on teachers nowadays (I earned a teaching degree and know a little about what the job's like). The major factor: too many crappy, weak parents who don't "parent" their kid, help with homework, or provide proper discipline. Too many kids born out of wedlock with no father figure. This is not a teacher's fault, but they must deal with the consequences. Very tough job, especially in poor districts. I don't know how they stand it, day after day.

Our educational systems are mostly funded and administered <span style="text-decoration: underline">locally</span>, right under our noses. Like Tom says, if the local voters don't care, shame on them. If your locality doesn't have good schools, the locality will deteriorate. Very simple, like Mr. Jefferson said.

If you want education reform, get invovled locally.

 

[tomshobby]

I have taught in the local Technical College. My support for the school system across America has waned, and much more over the last few years. The reason is this. Our school system is geared to producing job seekers when we have a huge surplus of those people and the students know it. What is needed desperately especially at this time are people with the skill and knowledge to start a business.

Tom - sounds like you've had some experience in the public education field. Matter of fact, I used to take classes as Madison Area Technical College back in the day. And parking back then was nearly impossible!

"What is needed desperately especially at this time are people with the skill and knowledge to start a business."

What can we do to increase student skills and knowledge to start a business?

Thanks.
Tom

Hi Tom,
I was certified to teach all the 720 series classes, that being everything that the machine tool students were required to take. Things including CAD/CAM, metallurgy, tool design, machining, etc. Also welding and metals processes.
Dave pretty much summed up a lot of the thoughts I have which are far more than what can be brought up here. I actually went back to school in my mid forties because I wanted to start my own business. Much to my amazement and disappointment the school had nothing to offer. The mission statement of the school was and I believe still is to educate people to fill the job market. I was a highly motivated student. I worked full time with a lot of over-time. completed 72 credits in 2 years with a 3.96 gpa and on top of that taught part time starting in my last semester. I started a student newspaper which targeted possible future employers resulting in our class having 13 job offers per student. I also won a world wide CAD/CAM contest with a prize valued at $12,000.

The point I am getting at is this. Here was a student that had drive and a vision of where he wanted to go and the school system had no idea of what to do with me or how to help me reach my goals.

I did end up with my own business just because I was too dumb to quit. But there was a lot of trial and error as I learned practices that actually would help my business. And believe me there were some really dumb attempts.

In answer to your question of what can we do; in my opinion what is needed are teachers that have been successful in the small business world. Unless a person has had the experience I don't see any way they could teach the concepts. But that does in no way mean to abandon everything else. Most people will never have what is needed in themselves to have or even want their own business so the current program serves them well and is also important.

The corporate world does not want entrepreneurs. When I started running a territory for a company, that was really what the job entailed, but in latter years with micro-management, improvisation seemed to be frowned upon.

Creativity and improvisation with a financial backing is how new businesses can get started...and not just franchises of companies. Students need to be encouraged to start their own "Mom and Pop" businesses. Possibly an overview of accounting and marketing would help. I am not sure what other items would be needed in a curriculum for starting a business...