• Hi Guest!
    You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

Aluminum warrentee

Share this page

AUSMHLY

AUSMHLY

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
OK, so the battle with the body shop that had my car for 13 months, continues.

Remember that piece of bondo that came off my left wing. The body shop super glued it and said bring it back next week and I'll spot paint it and clear the fender.

I brought it to him Wed as he said. Friday when I picked it up, surprise, wing not fixed. Also and more importantly, there is a small crack about an inch long, in the cowl, down from the front of the bonnet rain channel. I pointed that crack out to him on Wed. Friday he tells me, he will not warrantee that.

That's is a stress crack in the aluminum. I will not warrantee any aluminum on your car. What???? You told me I needed to bead blast the car so you would know what condition the car is in. Then you will fix anything needed, and then I'll have a warrantee. Now he tells me, only the metal parts.

We got into it, and boy did we. I'm the pickiest person ever to come into his shop, yada yada yada. You pushed my car in the corner and it sat there for months at a time, even though I would come in every week and plead with you to work on it.

Don't get me started guys.

Advise please. Anyone been told by their body shops, they will not warrantee their work if it is old Healey aluminum? He went on and on about if it was new aluminum he would, but being old aluminum and seeing that the car had been hit and many body shops worked on the car, he will not warrantee any part of my Healey that is aluminum.

My deal is he told me I would have a warrantee if I had the car bead blasted. NOT, you'll have a warrantee if I bead blast the car, except there will be no warrantee on any aluminum.

His last words, I'll fix the fender and the crack in the cowl, but that's it. If anything associated with aluminum cracks in the future, I will not warrantee it.

Your thoughts on this.
He's right and I should pray for the best down the road?
He's not a nice person and I should involve the BBB?

Roger
 
Well ASUMHLY, it seems like ole Yoda told you to go get you car along time ago when these silly things first came up.Glueing a ton of bondo back in place is no permanent solution to the problem.The bondo in the car will eventually crack from vibration. On the aluminum bit he is
telling you "HE" does not know how to weld aluminum and its tricky.At that location as a minimum the entire front of the car will require removal.Worst case it can require removal of the front shroud!.---Sorry you got all the problems may be you can fix them a one at the time as they crop up in the future.---Keoke-- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif
 
I'd get an evaluation of the entire job by a more reliable source, find out how much it would cost to fix the car the way it should have been in the first place, and present him a bill for that amount. My guess is that your "warantee" is not in writing. That leaves you with either verbal promises or the general law of California. Either way, one half inch of bondo is not reasonable or contemplated as the standard you paid for. My other guess is that this was not a cheap paint job. Do you have small claims court out there?
 
Do we have small claims court out here!?. Yep, an they charge you a fine fee to file one and they must be above a given dollar value.Additionally, where is the loss? the burden of proving you have suffeed a loss is up to you---Keoke- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
That's why I suggested an independent assessment. The loss is, depending on the law of the state involved, the difference in value of the services you received versus the price you paid; the cost of repairing the defective work, or the difference in value of the car as repaired versus the value as bargained for. The easiest measure is the cost of repair. Yes, I do this for a living, but can't help you in California.
 
Thank you Cutlass for your advise. I've been to small claims and it in itself can turn into a headache, as you know. Paper work must be correct. Sue him, because he is the owner, what is his real name, or the name of the body shop he owns? His side of the story, mine, what was promised, what was done, you used to much bondo, no I didn't, etc. etc. I win, he disputes, I win again, he says he's not going to pay. How do I find the actual branch of the bank he opened his account, put a lean on his stuff and not get paid till who knows what year, etc etc.

This puts a stop on finishing my car. Then who know what the new body shop will want to do and how long they will have it for. Not to mention, yes we can do the job, but we're busy, bring it in, oh around Feb or March, etc. Oh, and we don't know how long we will have it, till we open it up. Understand we will work on it between insurance jobs. NOOOOOOOOO

Getting back to my question. Anyone out here been told by their body shop, we will not warrantee our work, on any part of Healey aluminum? Can he actually do that?

Let's hope for the best here. He fixes the two areas. And I don't have any more problems.

However, I would like to know....What areas do BJ8's tend to have stress cracks. In relation to the outside body panels. I need to look very closely at those areas now, see what he did there, and if need bring them to his attention when I bring my car back on the 28th.

I'm at the tail end of dealing with this body shop and he is willing to repair the two areas without charge. Involving another body shop may or may not solve my problem. It's so hard to find body shops that will take on this kind of work. I've now gone through 3 body shops that were recommended and got screwed by all. The next body shop may want to open up a lot of the car and I'm right back to, Please, work on my car! Then find out his work is not as good as people say and I'm right back to square one. Don't get me started. Sorry, venting here. Roger

1. Where are the known stress areas?
2. Can he not warrantee his work on select areas of the car?
 
Gezz I'm worked up. Sorry about venting. I do have a body shop that will help me. They do great work. They really don't want to take it on, but will. They however will also work it in-between insurance and that is my biggest pet peeve. You have not worked on my car for months, pleaseeeee. Not to mention more money that I most likely will not recoup from the current body shop. Oh, more venting here....I paid the 2nd body shop 4,000 up front, then ended up pulling my car from them. See where this is going. Yikes, I'm doing it again. Venting.

Focus, thank you Keoke and Cutlass for taking the time to reply. Anyone who offers advise, suggestions, I am always appreciative. Cheers, Roger
 
Sorry you're having so much trouble Roger, I can sympathize. However, let me be the devil here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif body shops don't make enough profit on a complete body, including painting. It's just not worth the effort. The car takes up valuable shop space and becomes a "spare time job" to the mechanics. They can make more money on fast insurance fender etc. replacements than on your car.
Having seen his work I would reccomend taking the car to "Jule's" shop in Canada. He has the necessary jigs to do the job right.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone out here been told by their body shop, we will not warrantee our work, on any part of Healey aluminum? Can he actually do that? What areas do BJ8's tend to have stress cracks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Roger, Really sorry to hear you are having problems. It took me about a year to find someone to paint my car that I felt comfortable with (through referals, seeing past work on similar cars and getting good vibes from the person doing the work). I visited at least a dozen shops (and if you really want to get some opinons, ask the shops/owners to rate other shops/owners and you will usually get some very interesting "dirt" about rip offs, alcoholics, etc. etc.) Seems like this business has some very shady characters so it's 'caveat emptor' when dealing with them.

I received a good written guarantee from my painter. It was good because I composed it, had him look it over and he signed it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

My paint has "aged" for 1 1/2 years now and several small bumps have shown up on the aluminum front shroud which were caused by a reaction with some repair welding that was done (this is in the area of the factory welds between the headlamp opening and bonnet opening). Apparently some weld flux/contamination was not removed well enough and that reacted over time with the primer and pushed up the paint. The plan is to fix these areas after the car is running and I can drive it to his shop.

*Edit* ... I neglected to give you the full story .. and after reading this realize this version gives the impression that I did all the right things and it was smooth sailing. Actually, while my car was in his shop, the painter got a great offer and decided he was going to close his shop (after 10 years in one location) and work for someone else. Fortunately, he promised to finish my car but it did rush things a bit. So now, even though I have a "warranty" and have all his contact info and he has come out and promised to rework the bumps/paint he will need to use his ex shop and it's all a bit unsettling. So just wanted to point out that even if all looks great things can change in a heartbeat. *end of edit*

I have seen cracks on later Healeys around the opening for the hood scoop. This happens out near the corners where scoop opening changes direction abruptly into the flat of the bonnet. I think this is due to stresses of stamping this part. Of course you can get stress cracks any where you have fatiqued metal due to misuse/accident, corrosion or lack of support (not properly mounted). I think paint cracks and lifting happens with aluminum more because it takes special preparation and materials for cleaning/priming/sealing and many body shops/painters are not used to working with it.

Anyway, I hope your two areas get fixed pronto and everything else stays in good shape.

Cheers,
John
 
Knowledge is your best weapon. Try www.autobody101.com. That site can give you lots of info regarding proper prep and painting. My biggest concern about what you've said is, as suggested, the prep of the aluminum and the thickness of the filler. And I do sympathize with your prior frustrations with the small claims court process. It's not as simple as television implies. All too often, winning the case is only the beginning.
 
Welcome to the club of those who have been royally "HAD" by unscrupulous restorers, mechanics or body shops. I may not be President of the club but I certainly would be an officer.

Bruce
 
Hi Rodger, I'm really sorry to hear about your plight. It is a serious problem, but also may not be "too" bad. It depends on what your expectations of use for the car might be. There is no denying that you have body work that is questionable. If you do not have intentions of concours showing, then I may be inclined to go ahead and continue with your reassembly and restoration. The best sinario is that if the bodyshop repairs the two areas stated, that no more will appear for quite some time. If you drive the car extensively, like I do mine, marks, "AND CRACKS" will appear. If the majority of his work is not particularly flawed, The future problems that will appear will be handled fairly expediently as they appear. Or they may be so minor that you might chose to ignor them. I know it is very distressing to put all the time and money into the bodywork and not have it appear perfect. But the only alternative to what I have just stated is to strip the body to bare metal and start over. There is just no way to know just exactly what is under the glossy paint at any one point on the body. Just think if you were buying a finished car from an unknown seller (as many people do) who really knows what is under the glossy paint. I built a new house 3-yrs ago. I'm still repairing the sloppy workmanship that the original contractor did. And some of it is poor quality material that he slid in and covered up when I wasn't looking. I will never be able to correct some of the issues with this house. I can either sell the house and start over (if I could find more land?) or accept that the house is not completely what I wanted in quality. I don't think the house will fall down, or the roof blow off so in leu of future land transactions????
I wish you the best. By the way, anyone can say anything, the cost of procuring it from someone who is not going to deliver it can be infinite.
Dave C.
 
Hey Dave, nice letter. Just to bring you up to speed....I had the car bead blasted down to metal, while at this shop. Thank you very much for taking the time to write the above. I like the way you look at things. Sincerly, Roger
 
Hi AUSMHLY - I don't really have much to add that others haven't said already, except to add that I feel your pain. my belief is that a person should stand behind his/her work. At this point, probably best to get him to fix as much as possible then move on. I don't know about the small claims court business (getting a favorable decision is one thing, collecting is another) and even if you had a written warrantee that covered aluminum, would you really want this guy grudgingly working on your car? One day, hopefully soon, you’ll hop in your car and that wonderful exhaust note will wash away the memory of all this crapola.
 
Ok. 20 plus hours at $85 per is a bit steep for me right now. After all, the Healey has a needy cousin in the garage. But I still need to replace the damned plugs. Roger (AUSMHLY) was able to find an excellent guy who replaced most of his (easily reached) plugs in-situ. Unfortunately, said mechanic cannot take my car on as he's already buried for the rest of the year. So, let's say I leave the motor in place. Let's say I remove the necessary interior parts, console and tunnel, and clean/flush the cooling system ahead of time. Knowing the carbs and manifold must be removed, how difficult and how many hours (estimate of course) can I expect to replace all the expansion plugs, including upper and rear, leaving the engine in place?
Maybe I gotta do it this way and hold off on the detailing.
Thanks
Randy
 
Well Randy, let me suggest a course of action for you assuming you can dismantle and reassemble the car.Perhaps you could get that mechanic to install the freeze plugs for you if all he had to was install the plugs at an ageed time when you have the car transported to his facility. This should not take more than ~2 man hours work I would think.--Fwiw--Keoke
 
Randy:
Not to change AUSMHLY's subject, for which I sympathize, there are several options you could explore to replace weeping expansion plugs. Most or all this work could be done in-situ by removing the carbs and intake and exhaust manifolds to access the freeze plugs

You could then assess those plugs that need attention and simply replace with a carefully preped original or a temporary rubber expandable plug. I had to do this to my engine as a temporary repair and if I hadn’t pulled the engine two years later for a rebuild, could have lasted for many years. If you're interested send me a PM to discuss details. GONZO
 
Apologies for moving this issue into Roger's thread. I did it by accident. I posted before looking to make sure I was in the right place. Thought I had caught it in time but evidently not.
Randy
 
Back
Top