-
Hi Guest!
You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
There are some perks with a member upgrade!**Upgrade Now**
(PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Hey - did you know if you click on the title of a thread it will take you to the first unread post since you last visited that thread?
but were afraid to ask: 
STOP!! Never post your email address in open forums. Bots can "harvest" your email! If you must share your email use a Private Message or use the 
smilie in place of the real @
Pretty Please - add it to our Events forum(s) and add to the calendar! >> 
TR4/4A Aluminum Sump made for TR3-TR4?
- Thread starter Jerry
- Start date
Share this page
G
Guest
Guest
Guest
Offline
Rimmer Brothers in UK sells a nice one. Saw one at recent car show. You gotta dig deep. Close to five bills with shipping.
Remember to put the plug in when filling. (see other post)
Bill
Remember to put the plug in when filling. (see other post)
Bill
Don Elliott
Obi Wan
Offline
The fins extend the length of the bottom of the oil pan so they are in the path of the cooling air as the car moves forward. The fins also protrude below the bottom of the frame cross members to be in the cooling air. If you drive on rough or rocky roads or if you have high curbs (kerbs) where you live, you will have to be very careful not to knock the fins off.
Don Elliott
Don Elliott
Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Hi,
TRF might get one of these, but I'm sure it will cost more than $379 now. The last price I saw was over $500. I had ordered one from them, but it was a four or five *year* backorder! I'm not kidding, unfortunately.
Instead you might want to try Ken Gillanders at British Frame and Engine (www.britishframeandengine.com). Might be only a little bit cheaper, but more importantly he can usually get the part to you in a reasonable time.
I believe he offers a choice of four different sumps:
You can get the deeper sump, which is most similar to the factory option, and I think is what was described above. This is probably the best one to improve cooling, but more vulnerable because it hangs below the frame rails.
Or, there is a short "race" sump that is better for ground clearance and less exposed. It sits about flush with the frame rails and would be my personal choice.
And, I think either of those models can be bought in black or natural cast aluminum finishes.
The short "race" sump requires a bit of modification to the oil pump, but everything necessary is included with the kit.
I believe all the alloy sumps come with windage trays.
The aluminum itself will transfer heat better than steel, but overall the thicker walls don't make for a great deal of improved cooling. I think the primary improvements will be a more rigid bottom end and better sealing.
If your goal is better cooling without fans and/or oil cooler, or to supplement those accessories, Revington TR sells a modified steel sump that has tubes installed lengthwise to allow airflow right through the sump pan itself and increase the exposed surface area for heat exhange. Sort of a neat idea, with less "to go wrong" than might be the case with an external oil cooler or added electric fan. But, done right there should be matching holes cut in the frame cross member in front of the engine, to direct as much air as possible through the tubes in the sump.
p.s. I just took a look at Ken's website (link above) and notice he also offers magnesium sumps in either black or natural finish. Magnesium appears to be only be available in one size, I'm guessing the deeper version, might want to clarify that with Ken. Overall, the prices seem to be a bit lower than in the recent past, so maybe some new suppliers have come on the scene.
TRF might get one of these, but I'm sure it will cost more than $379 now. The last price I saw was over $500. I had ordered one from them, but it was a four or five *year* backorder! I'm not kidding, unfortunately.
Instead you might want to try Ken Gillanders at British Frame and Engine (www.britishframeandengine.com). Might be only a little bit cheaper, but more importantly he can usually get the part to you in a reasonable time.
I believe he offers a choice of four different sumps:
You can get the deeper sump, which is most similar to the factory option, and I think is what was described above. This is probably the best one to improve cooling, but more vulnerable because it hangs below the frame rails.
Or, there is a short "race" sump that is better for ground clearance and less exposed. It sits about flush with the frame rails and would be my personal choice.
And, I think either of those models can be bought in black or natural cast aluminum finishes.
The short "race" sump requires a bit of modification to the oil pump, but everything necessary is included with the kit.
I believe all the alloy sumps come with windage trays.
The aluminum itself will transfer heat better than steel, but overall the thicker walls don't make for a great deal of improved cooling. I think the primary improvements will be a more rigid bottom end and better sealing.
If your goal is better cooling without fans and/or oil cooler, or to supplement those accessories, Revington TR sells a modified steel sump that has tubes installed lengthwise to allow airflow right through the sump pan itself and increase the exposed surface area for heat exhange. Sort of a neat idea, with less "to go wrong" than might be the case with an external oil cooler or added electric fan. But, done right there should be matching holes cut in the frame cross member in front of the engine, to direct as much air as possible through the tubes in the sump.
p.s. I just took a look at Ken's website (link above) and notice he also offers magnesium sumps in either black or natural finish. Magnesium appears to be only be available in one size, I'm guessing the deeper version, might want to clarify that with Ken. Overall, the prices seem to be a bit lower than in the recent past, so maybe some new suppliers have come on the scene.
CraigFL
Jedi Trainee
Offline
Geo Hahn
Yoda
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
...If you drive on rough or rocky roads or if you have high curbs (kerbs) where you live, you will have to be very careful not to knock the fins off...
[/ QUOTE ]
Too true. The bottom of my frame will attest to the fact that speed bumps in my part of the world are not always TR-friendly. Hope I never have to remove those 2 bolts that protude down.
...If you drive on rough or rocky roads or if you have high curbs (kerbs) where you live, you will have to be very careful not to knock the fins off...
[/ QUOTE ]
Too true. The bottom of my frame will attest to the fact that speed bumps in my part of the world are not always TR-friendly. Hope I never have to remove those 2 bolts that protude down.
I really am looking for the sealing issue with the aluminum sump. My original has some bends in it than I have not been able to pound out. It kept the underside of the car well lubricated. I would be a little worried about a sump going below the frame. We have speed bumps around here that already scrape.
The cooling capacity would help also. I looked at the two web sites in England and they have two choices, the race or shorten model and the direct replacement that would put the fins below the frame. I think the shortened model will require a new oil pump?
By the way, the Roadster Factory is $799. That is double what the sites in England list.
Thanks for all the web sites to check. If you find more, let me know.
Jerry
The cooling capacity would help also. I looked at the two web sites in England and they have two choices, the race or shorten model and the direct replacement that would put the fins below the frame. I think the shortened model will require a new oil pump?
By the way, the Roadster Factory is $799. That is double what the sites in England list.
Thanks for all the web sites to check. If you find more, let me know.
Jerry
Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Hi again Jerry,
Wow! $799!
The prices on www.britishframeandengine.com look *really* good now... Heck, even the magnesium sump is shown at $440 right now, while the aluminum ones are listed at $360-400.
Assuming the bottom face of your block is in reasonably good shape, yes, the alloy sump should give better sealing. The front and rear crankshaft sealing blocks might need attention, too. At the rear of the crank, have you upgraded to the gaco or lip seal? On my TR4, the open-air crankcase breather seemed to be the primary culprit for the "British undercoating". Did it's job well, though, and kept the car pretty rust free, if a bit oily.
Besides the improved seal, the other benefits of an alloy sump would be slightly better cooling, more rigidity and strength in the bottom end, perhaps a little quieter running, and locations to add an oil temp sender.
Perhaps the #1 reason... it just looks cool!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
Wow! $799!
The prices on www.britishframeandengine.com look *really* good now... Heck, even the magnesium sump is shown at $440 right now, while the aluminum ones are listed at $360-400.
Assuming the bottom face of your block is in reasonably good shape, yes, the alloy sump should give better sealing. The front and rear crankshaft sealing blocks might need attention, too. At the rear of the crank, have you upgraded to the gaco or lip seal? On my TR4, the open-air crankcase breather seemed to be the primary culprit for the "British undercoating". Did it's job well, though, and kept the car pretty rust free, if a bit oily.
Besides the improved seal, the other benefits of an alloy sump would be slightly better cooling, more rigidity and strength in the bottom end, perhaps a little quieter running, and locations to add an oil temp sender.
Perhaps the #1 reason... it just looks cool!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
vettedog72
Jedi Knight
Offline
After shipping and possible duty you may find the prices to be much closer. Call your friendly FEDEX and ask for a quote, sit down first, it is a shock. I used the carrier chosen by the shipper because I could not find anything that would beat his costs. You may have duty on the new part. I did not have duty as the part was described as "old used auto part". I don't think anything would look better than the aluminum oil pan. If you want to seal the old pan, it looks like there are enough products to plug anything smaller than a broken levy in New Orleans.
Mychael
Senior Member
Offline
I had purchased a German made sump from a UK TR man.It was expensive, the quality is good, it does extend below the frame so I needed to make a guard and I /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif did need to modify it to fit around the oil pump.
It was expensive for me to get to Australia with rate of exchange etc.
Mychael
It was expensive for me to get to Australia with rate of exchange etc.
Mychael
trfourtune
Jedi Knight
Offline
hey,
if it's just better sealing then why not fabricate a 1/4" or thicker steel ring to match the flange and have a good shop weld it to your pan and have them surface grind the mating surface? if you make the ring with some flat bar and or plate, it's got to be cheaper.
rob
if it's just better sealing then why not fabricate a 1/4" or thicker steel ring to match the flange and have a good shop weld it to your pan and have them surface grind the mating surface? if you make the ring with some flat bar and or plate, it's got to be cheaper.
rob
trfourtune
Jedi Knight
Offline
or just heat with torch, straighten on heavy plate, and make backing bars 1/4" thick on the outside. longer bolts may be required for bothe suggestions
rob
rob