Hey - did you know if you click on the title of a thread it will take you to the first unread post since you last visited that thread?
but were afraid to ask: 
STOP!! Never post your email address in open forums. Bots can "harvest" your email! If you must share your email use a Private Message or use the 
smilie in place of the real @
Pretty Please - add it to our Events forum(s) and add to the calendar! >> 
Hey Alfisti,check out this giulietta on ebay#4577688424,a OK decent car but the seller is oh sooooo smoooth.I am quite sure he is honest, he told me so.He forgot to put in his discription {"dont believe your lyin eyes"}.I must remember to hire him to sell my stuff.Biz is Biz right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
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ALFA-NATICS
- Thread starter BOXoROCKS
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coldplugs
Darth Vader
Offline
The pictures show a decent car but the listing is spooky. I wouldn't bid without seeing the car and some documentation. It's odd that a self-described "Automotive Photojournalist" refers to it as an "Alpha Romeo" (sic) in his answers to questions and that his name doesn't show up on google.
They claim to be "..the oldest appraisal, estate brokerage and automotive writing company in the United States authenticated by the United States Supreme Court" and to have been in business for 70 some years yet their only google entry is for their own website. They also seem to have no physical address.
Zero feedback is also not encouraging.
They claim to be "..the oldest appraisal, estate brokerage and automotive writing company in the United States authenticated by the United States Supreme Court" and to have been in business for 70 some years yet their only google entry is for their own website. They also seem to have no physical address.
Zero feedback is also not encouraging.
Bruce Bowker
Obi Wan
Offline
Does the US Supreme Court authenticate businesses?
Bruce
Bruce
norcalnewb
Member
Offline
The auction ended with the highest bid just under $25K and didn't reach the reserve. The seller stated he had the reserve at $30K. Seems awfully high for one of these cars.
Bruce Bowker
Obi Wan
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
The auction ended with the highest bid just under $25K and didn't reach the reserve. The seller stated he had the reserve at $30K. Seems awfully high for one of these cars.
[/ QUOTE ]
It sure does seem high but then $25,000 does. And I don't remember the wheels being the same color as the car although I had a 1961. If I am correct then what else might be incorrect on the car?
Bruce
The auction ended with the highest bid just under $25K and didn't reach the reserve. The seller stated he had the reserve at $30K. Seems awfully high for one of these cars.
[/ QUOTE ]
It sure does seem high but then $25,000 does. And I don't remember the wheels being the same color as the car although I had a 1961. If I am correct then what else might be incorrect on the car?
Bruce
Paa-leeze.I am a proud ALFA Giulietta owner.As I stated that car was nice but not concour.As for 25K being high? A little bit of history.When Henry Ford was building the model T, ALFA was building DOHC supercharged engines.The Jag DOHC engine was a copy of an ALFA engine.MG should have been so wise.The 750 series ALFA,s were benchmark cars,making our comparable british machinery obsolete.ROAD&TRACK said at the time" no car has any business being so desirable".With MGA,s TR3,s A.H. hitting $20/65K the ALFA Giulietta series are a BARGAIN at $30+k. I am a 50/60/70,s Brit car fanatic,have many,but they are downright agricultural as compared to 50/60,s ALFA,s.Sorry but that got my dander up.
JamesWilson
Yoda
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
A little bit of history.When Henry Ford was building the model T, ALFA was building DOHC supercharged engines.
[/ QUOTE ]
15+ million Model Ts.
Must have done something right, even if they lacked supercharged DOHC engines....
A little bit of history.When Henry Ford was building the model T, ALFA was building DOHC supercharged engines.
[/ QUOTE ]
15+ million Model Ts.
Must have done something right, even if they lacked supercharged DOHC engines....
Bruce Bowker
Obi Wan
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
that car was nice but not concour.As for 25K being high? With MGA,s TR3,s A.H. hitting $20/65K the ALFA Giulietta series are a BARGAIN at $30+k.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having a hard time finding MGA or TR3 in simliar condition as high as $20,000!! I suppose there will the one off that someone might pay that much or the B-J auction where it seems people pay anything. So I am still hard pressed to say the car was a bargain at $30,000.
As I said I owned a 1961 and have been looking for another one for some time. Price just seems high to me.
Bruce
that car was nice but not concour.As for 25K being high? With MGA,s TR3,s A.H. hitting $20/65K the ALFA Giulietta series are a BARGAIN at $30+k.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having a hard time finding MGA or TR3 in simliar condition as high as $20,000!! I suppose there will the one off that someone might pay that much or the B-J auction where it seems people pay anything. So I am still hard pressed to say the car was a bargain at $30,000.
As I said I owned a 1961 and have been looking for another one for some time. Price just seems high to me.
Bruce
Bruce,I typed a heck of a long explanition,then deleted it.I am sure I wont be able to convince you.Your car was a 101 series ALFA very nice cars,but half the value of 750 series ALFA,s. The ebay car was a 750 series and a 1957 to boot,rare.Please read the Sept issue of classic motorsports,2 good articals.Also in Autoweek and other mags lately.You say you have been looking,I hope you find one in your price range.I have appx 10- 750/101 series ALFA Giuliettas/Giulias.Two are 750 series veloces spiders the rest are normales.From show to projects.I DO know what they are worth,should I ever sell.I will have to be close to death before that happens.I should think finding 20+K MGA,s/TR3,s that are selling in this range shouldnt be to hard.I suppose I can understand your confusion,as I cant for the life of me understand the retail value of 57 chev,s,VW bugs, bugeyes, mini,s "which the ALFA GTA 1300 jr devasted and rendered obsolete in 1968 in the European Touring Car Championship"and other collectable cars.This doesn,t mean thier value isnt real
Bruce Bowker
Obi Wan
Offline
Sorry - did not remember/know difference from a 750 vs. a 101. So therefore because it is 750 price is higher which then makes sense.
Bruce
Bruce
JamesWilson
Yoda
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
YUPPER,....McDonalds...billions served.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not the same... at all. But someone comparing an ALfa RACE car to a mass produced Model T doesn't care about being fair.
Perverse, really, when you're complaining that you've got your dander up because people are saying Alfas aren't being fairly critiqued.
The Model T put the country on wheels... something Alfas and the like NEVER could have accomplished.
Ford made MORE cars in the year Alfa built its supercharged DOHC than Alfa built then, has ever built, or ever will build.
That's a bit of History you ignore.
Model Ts were popular, reliable and well built, and eminently suited to the motoring conditions prevalent at the time... something the Alfa supercharged DOHC was not.
A bit of History you also ignore.
And its something that CURRENT depreciation rates show Alfas have yet to achieve.
But they are pretty.... shame that more people don't want them... prices would THEN be higher and your dander could relax a little.
YUPPER,....McDonalds...billions served.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not the same... at all. But someone comparing an ALfa RACE car to a mass produced Model T doesn't care about being fair.
Perverse, really, when you're complaining that you've got your dander up because people are saying Alfas aren't being fairly critiqued.
The Model T put the country on wheels... something Alfas and the like NEVER could have accomplished.
Ford made MORE cars in the year Alfa built its supercharged DOHC than Alfa built then, has ever built, or ever will build.
That's a bit of History you ignore.
Model Ts were popular, reliable and well built, and eminently suited to the motoring conditions prevalent at the time... something the Alfa supercharged DOHC was not.
A bit of History you also ignore.
And its something that CURRENT depreciation rates show Alfas have yet to achieve.
But they are pretty.... shame that more people don't want them... prices would THEN be higher and your dander could relax a little.
James,all very interesting,but the comparison was in ability,and the contribution to the advancement of technology.But I stand corrected,next time I will say model T racecar.
Correct me if I am wrong, but not a lot of model T tech still being used today.They have also taught the great apes to use sign language, but I have yet to read one of thier books.As far as values,I was refering to the 750 series ALFA ROMEO giuliettas,as you surely were aware, not any and all ALFA,s. Please show me a depreciation chart for the 750 series ALFA,s If you would still like to continue this discussion,I suggest you read some of your own countrymens automobile writers opinions on this matter.Might I suggest a Mr Bolsters comments from the era.Or a Martin Buckley of the here and now.As far as ignoring history, it wasn't, the history you,ve mentioned was irrelivant to the topic at hand.
Correct me if I am wrong, but not a lot of model T tech still being used today.They have also taught the great apes to use sign language, but I have yet to read one of thier books.As far as values,I was refering to the 750 series ALFA ROMEO giuliettas,as you surely were aware, not any and all ALFA,s. Please show me a depreciation chart for the 750 series ALFA,s If you would still like to continue this discussion,I suggest you read some of your own countrymens automobile writers opinions on this matter.Might I suggest a Mr Bolsters comments from the era.Or a Martin Buckley of the here and now.As far as ignoring history, it wasn't, the history you,ve mentioned was irrelivant to the topic at hand.
JamesWilson
Yoda
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
... the comparison was in ability, and the contribution to the advancement of technology. But I stand corrected, next time I will say model T racecar.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, that would leave the earliest Alfa two years behind and the supercharged DOHC something like 15 years to the rear. How many laps would that be?
[ QUOTE ]
Correct me if I am wrong, but not a lot of model T tech still being used today.
[/ QUOTE ]
Very glad to!
Alloy steel (see Ford's comments re Vanadiam Steel and the benefits brought by light cars), all steel bodies (the T started with steel over wood frames but changed in 1912, though Morgan has still to catch up), single casting engine blocks; and numerous others. At some point in the past I saw a list of over 50 technological "firsts" associated with the T.
Not to mention that Ford's production techniques are ubiquitous, used even by Alfa. Who builds cars today individually on stands? Spot welding, seam welding, casting technology, the list is almost endless.
EVERYONE knows about the Model T, and you seem to want us to think it had less importance than a 1920s Alfa? Absurd. Lots of "Model T" technology is still being used. Even by Italian sophisticates.
It may surprize you some, but I'd love to have one of the beasts (a Montreal seems particularly lustworthy, I'm a sucker for a pretty body) too.
But you might try reading something about the Model T, it may save you from getting MY dander up by your ill considered, inaccurate and, as your intended focus was LBCs, irrelevant remarks.
While many people today consider the T to be a crude and basic car it was sophisticated for 1908, a viable product for nearly 20 years, and an epoch making mold breaker. Nothing Alfa has ever done stands any comparison with it. And no LBC has had anything like its impact, either.
... the comparison was in ability, and the contribution to the advancement of technology. But I stand corrected, next time I will say model T racecar.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, that would leave the earliest Alfa two years behind and the supercharged DOHC something like 15 years to the rear. How many laps would that be?
[ QUOTE ]
Correct me if I am wrong, but not a lot of model T tech still being used today.
[/ QUOTE ]
Very glad to!
Alloy steel (see Ford's comments re Vanadiam Steel and the benefits brought by light cars), all steel bodies (the T started with steel over wood frames but changed in 1912, though Morgan has still to catch up), single casting engine blocks; and numerous others. At some point in the past I saw a list of over 50 technological "firsts" associated with the T.
Not to mention that Ford's production techniques are ubiquitous, used even by Alfa. Who builds cars today individually on stands? Spot welding, seam welding, casting technology, the list is almost endless.
EVERYONE knows about the Model T, and you seem to want us to think it had less importance than a 1920s Alfa? Absurd. Lots of "Model T" technology is still being used. Even by Italian sophisticates.
It may surprize you some, but I'd love to have one of the beasts (a Montreal seems particularly lustworthy, I'm a sucker for a pretty body) too.
But you might try reading something about the Model T, it may save you from getting MY dander up by your ill considered, inaccurate and, as your intended focus was LBCs, irrelevant remarks.
While many people today consider the T to be a crude and basic car it was sophisticated for 1908, a viable product for nearly 20 years, and an epoch making mold breaker. Nothing Alfa has ever done stands any comparison with it. And no LBC has had anything like its impact, either.
OK James, lets cut right to the chase.My intended focus,if you would bother to reread ALL the posts,was to comment on the seller of an ALFA.NO insults implied or expresed,UNTILL some of my LBC bretheren expressed disbelief that an ALFA of the 750 series would bring that kind of money regardless of its reserve.This was posted on OTHER cars forum,nowhere else.I am sure thier comments were said without malice,I suspect your first post on the subject was not.I have owned as stated, many many, and stll do, British cars, since the mid 60's.I am a HUGE fan of H Ford,and his contempories.The point of this subject has gotten childish,please tell me where I intentionaly berated or misrepresented the facts in my post.You came looking for an argument and you found one.The subject at hand was about ALFA's contributions to motor sports,not thier pre-eminance in transportation for the masses.James it may surprize you too that I really like Austin Healeys,had several,just don't want anymore,way over priced for value recieved.
JamesWilson
Yoda
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
I am sure thier comments were said without malice,I suspect your first post on the subject was not. ...The point of this subject has gotten childish,please tell me where I intentionaly berated .....
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
YUPPER ..... McDonalds. Billions served.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its easy enough to show exactly that: you're the one doing the berating in response to an observation that Ford must have done something right to sell so many despite being unsophisticated. Where, pray tell, is the maliciousness in that?
No, your dander was up and YOU responded with malice, unless the analogy with McDonalds was meant to be complimentary. And who here would be so silly as to believe you meant it to be? Can you demonstrate I'm wrong?
And then your cracks about great apes and no known current uses of Model T technology. No malice evident in that?
Don't be so disingenuous.
As I said in the last post, people today tend to think of the Model T as a crude and unsophisticated car, and you seemed to embrace that attitude with your intial post on it and every response to me afterwards. From someone that purports to be a fan of Mr. Ford you seem not to know much about his technical achievements.
The subject at hand was Alfa's engineering excellence, and its failure to see that reflected in market valuations, or in the opinion of some LBC owners.
The plain and simple fact of the matter is that the Model T was as well engineered and built for its intended purposes as the Alfa racer was for its; and that the T's contributions to automotive technology were more significant and persistent. Didn't the Alfa use a single casting block? Doesn't your little gem run with inter-changeable parts? Alfa, and every other auto manufacturer or racer today relies on what Ford did with the Model T and you know it.
What's the problem? Are Alfas "undervalued" and under-appreciated? You act like the market has hurt your feelings... but that's economics.
I've said in the past:
https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthread...6&fpart=all
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Need a little help with some ideas for a snappy comeback at an Alfisti ... I can't let him have the last word when it's a slam on Healeys!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonono.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Better load up with several responses then, for your witty repartee is likely to be met by more of the same.... jibes about agricultural machinery, Lucas electrics, oil leaks, reliability, then they may try to be insulting too.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I think everyone here is generally well aware of the relative sophistication of LBCs and Alfas; and of the shortcomings of LBCs as I noted, and this foretold of the insults, too.
I am sure thier comments were said without malice,I suspect your first post on the subject was not. ...The point of this subject has gotten childish,please tell me where I intentionaly berated .....
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
YUPPER ..... McDonalds. Billions served.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its easy enough to show exactly that: you're the one doing the berating in response to an observation that Ford must have done something right to sell so many despite being unsophisticated. Where, pray tell, is the maliciousness in that?
No, your dander was up and YOU responded with malice, unless the analogy with McDonalds was meant to be complimentary. And who here would be so silly as to believe you meant it to be? Can you demonstrate I'm wrong?
And then your cracks about great apes and no known current uses of Model T technology. No malice evident in that?
Don't be so disingenuous.
As I said in the last post, people today tend to think of the Model T as a crude and unsophisticated car, and you seemed to embrace that attitude with your intial post on it and every response to me afterwards. From someone that purports to be a fan of Mr. Ford you seem not to know much about his technical achievements.
The subject at hand was Alfa's engineering excellence, and its failure to see that reflected in market valuations, or in the opinion of some LBC owners.
The plain and simple fact of the matter is that the Model T was as well engineered and built for its intended purposes as the Alfa racer was for its; and that the T's contributions to automotive technology were more significant and persistent. Didn't the Alfa use a single casting block? Doesn't your little gem run with inter-changeable parts? Alfa, and every other auto manufacturer or racer today relies on what Ford did with the Model T and you know it.
What's the problem? Are Alfas "undervalued" and under-appreciated? You act like the market has hurt your feelings... but that's economics.
I've said in the past:
https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthread...6&fpart=all
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Need a little help with some ideas for a snappy comeback at an Alfisti ... I can't let him have the last word when it's a slam on Healeys!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonono.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Better load up with several responses then, for your witty repartee is likely to be met by more of the same.... jibes about agricultural machinery, Lucas electrics, oil leaks, reliability, then they may try to be insulting too.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I think everyone here is generally well aware of the relative sophistication of LBCs and Alfas; and of the shortcomings of LBCs as I noted, and this foretold of the insults, too.