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TR6 ajustable training arm brackets--- 1974 TR6
- Thread starter Terry_M
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Alfred E. Neuman
Jedi Trainee
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Who made the adjustable bracket kit you're using? Do they have an up/down adjustment as well as in/out? What springs are you using?
In a trailing arm set-up like the IRS TR's use, adjusting the trailing arms strictly in/out will have more effect on toe than on camber. Up and down is what will move the camber, specifically you want to rotate the trailing arm attachment on the outrigger in the direction that will rotate the hub into a more positive position.
In a trailing arm set-up like the IRS TR's use, adjusting the trailing arms strictly in/out will have more effect on toe than on camber. Up and down is what will move the camber, specifically you want to rotate the trailing arm attachment on the outrigger in the direction that will rotate the hub into a more positive position.
Hey Al thanks for the help
The kit i am using is the Good Parts kit--Up and down adjusters In and out through spacers behind bracket--I have maxed them out inside adjusters and outside. I am about 4 degrees neg or the top of the tire is leaning in . I have new stock springs from Good parts
regards
terry
The kit i am using is the Good Parts kit--Up and down adjusters In and out through spacers behind bracket--I have maxed them out inside adjusters and outside. I am about 4 degrees neg or the top of the tire is leaning in . I have new stock springs from Good parts
regards
terry
Offline
I bought a kit and only used the adjusters on the outside (and sold the other two). I don't really see a need for four. The bonus in a situation like yours is you can flip the inside brackets or swap them out with different ones (there are at least three different as I recall) until you get the adjustment with the outers in the range you want. Assuming you want both sides even you are also starting with a fixed point on the inside mount and limiting the variables in adjustment.
I think you were lucky--on mine the drivers side i needed two to get the adjustment too just over 1deg neg-- which i mean is leaning in at the top 1 deg--On the passenger side i am leaning in 4 deg using both adjusters --I think what i will do is drive it for the remainder of the summer and then ajust it again in the fall
Tybalt
Jedi Warrior
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For alignment purposes, camber on the rear of the TR6 is a function of the static installed spring height and the relative angle of the pivot line of the inner and outer trailing arm pivots/brackets. Spring rate comes into play when you are talking about changes in camber and toe as the suspension is loaded or unloaded and goes through its range of motion. Buckeye Triumphs (IIRC) has a nice chart of the relative static camber angles using various combinations of the three different stock brackets in notches up and notches down orientations. You check your camber and note which brackets are installed and the notch orientations, then consult the chart for the camber change needed and see what bracket combination is recommended to get that change, then give that combination a whirl and measure camber again, repeating as necessary. For a while this chart was also included in Moss catalogs but then it was dropped for some reason (perhaps copyright considerations). It can be done and it's not really that hard, but it can turn into a bigger effort than planned on since it is kind of a trial and error process (have first hand data on that). The rear toe is adjusted by means of the shims mounted between the brackets and the frame.
Terry_M, you state that you "have them adjusted fully out." By adjusted fully out, do you mean that you have all four adjusted to the same position either fully lower or higher in the brackets?
There was a TSB for TR6s put out by BL on rear camber which involved using a spacer on the underside of the rear springs to bring rear camber to the specified -1° ± 1/2°. The spacer was supplied under one of the HAC series part numbers but I don't specifically recall the exact number other than the first digit (HAC 1??). Unfortunately it was kind of a one shot deal and since it called for placing the spacers on both sides it did not really address the issue of camber differences between the sides. I know of cases where a spacer was fitted to one side only, the spacer fitted to one side was machined to be thinner or shims placed under the spacer to even things up from a camber standpoint and usually, but not always, to address the wheel center to fender lip distance.
Also note that while your car came later in production, there was a recall campaign on 71 down TR6s on front headlamp center height that involved changing out front spring pads to thicker ones. MG had a similar issue on 72 down MGBs, but to address theirs, it involved a spring swap out to get the headlamp centers to the federally mandated minimum height.
Terry_M, you state that you "have them adjusted fully out." By adjusted fully out, do you mean that you have all four adjusted to the same position either fully lower or higher in the brackets?
There was a TSB for TR6s put out by BL on rear camber which involved using a spacer on the underside of the rear springs to bring rear camber to the specified -1° ± 1/2°. The spacer was supplied under one of the HAC series part numbers but I don't specifically recall the exact number other than the first digit (HAC 1??). Unfortunately it was kind of a one shot deal and since it called for placing the spacers on both sides it did not really address the issue of camber differences between the sides. I know of cases where a spacer was fitted to one side only, the spacer fitted to one side was machined to be thinner or shims placed under the spacer to even things up from a camber standpoint and usually, but not always, to address the wheel center to fender lip distance.
Also note that while your car came later in production, there was a recall campaign on 71 down TR6s on front headlamp center height that involved changing out front spring pads to thicker ones. MG had a similar issue on 72 down MGBs, but to address theirs, it involved a spring swap out to get the headlamp centers to the federally mandated minimum height.
Tybalt i appreciate your interest--with the good parts adjustable brackets each arm has two adjustable brackets (inside and outside where we attach the trailing arm to the frame arms ). This aft i was refitting my E brake cable. I took the adjusters both back to half way and started the adjustments over agin. I have zero camber now without the tire on or sitting on the ground I plan on Torquing them in as is . Driving until fall and then reverify My buddy said if everything is torqued to spec with new springs etc it shouldn't move--The garage is over 90F ,i was very happy to agree with him
regards
Terry
regards
Terry
Tybalt
Jedi Warrior
Offline
Terry_M, I am familiar with Richard's brackets and have installed them on a couple of cars. If you have now set all of the pivot bolts to the same height position in the brackets, then you can expect the same thing camber wise as having the all of the pivot bolts set all the way to the top or all the way to the bottom since the net angle between the pivot bolts would be zero in all three cases. Camber is adjusted by changing the pivot bolt angle. Zero camber with the car in the air and the suspension unloaded and at full droop will not be representative of the camber once you load the suspension and roll the car until the suspension stabilizes. With the car in the air and the suspension at full droop, you should have positive camber that will be reduced and quite possibly translate into negative camber once the suspension is loaded and stabilized.
Here's a link to the Buckeye's page on rear suspension geometry analysis and then one on suspension adjustment, there is some repitition between the two but one is concentrated on the analysis while the other is more the actual hands on work of making the adjustments. These are done with the stock brackets, what Richard's brackets allow you to do is skip the bracket swap out/flip steps in order to adjust the pivot bolt angle by altering the the pivot bolt positions in situ. Also bear in mind that there is a relationship between toe and camber on these due to the rear suspension design so I would suggest getting the toe pretty well dialed in before getting started on the camber adjustment then do any toe tweaks if needed.
https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Suspension/RSGeometry/RSGeometry.htm
https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Suspension/AdjRS/AdjRS.htm
Here's a link to the Buckeye's page on rear suspension geometry analysis and then one on suspension adjustment, there is some repitition between the two but one is concentrated on the analysis while the other is more the actual hands on work of making the adjustments. These are done with the stock brackets, what Richard's brackets allow you to do is skip the bracket swap out/flip steps in order to adjust the pivot bolt angle by altering the the pivot bolt positions in situ. Also bear in mind that there is a relationship between toe and camber on these due to the rear suspension design so I would suggest getting the toe pretty well dialed in before getting started on the camber adjustment then do any toe tweaks if needed.
https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Suspension/RSGeometry/RSGeometry.htm
https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Suspension/AdjRS/AdjRS.htm
Tybalt :yeah i follow it's about angles and i understand changing the angle affects camber. My original question was i had the inside adjustable bracket all the way at the top --outside bracket all the way to the bottom and was out 4 deg. Today i put both back to the middle and adjusted from there . I am at zero now ,agreed it's on the hoist I plan to torque it in with this setting and take it for a spin and see what it looks like I do all my own work ,it's been in the garage all summer, with one thing or another, with me or the car . I need to take it out ! Thanks for the help i will follow the advice eventually
regards
terry
regards
terry