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Were you ever able to find that “Header Porn” I sent you a pic of?
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AH EFI build... again
- Thread starter HealeyPassion
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HealeyPassion
Jedi Warrior
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Yes, John, either of these is on my "option" list... I am hoping to avoid those, but will if needed. I have had the headers ceramic coated inside and out which is advertised to lower the external header temps by 140-170 degrees. I did the same thing on my last Healey and it did appreciably lower the header temps... but since I didn't do a "before and after" I can't verify, or dispute, the actual temp. drop. I installed the injectors and fuel rail today... image enclosed.
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HealeyPassion
Jedi Warrior
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This beautiful baby!
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twas_brillig
Jedi Knight
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We're converting a 1972 BMW 2002 (hopefully) to EFI using gutted Weber DCOEs as throttle bodies with injector bungs from Simple Digital Systems welded onto the underside, upstream of the butterfly. Not optimum, but we're trying to have an engine compartment that will look like a hot-rodded 70s car (i.e. dual Webers). An advantage of the SDS bungs is that you don't need a fuel rail; also they're maybe 30 km from where we live. The wee photo is supposed to show how the bungs are attached to the underside of the carbs. If there was room, I'd look into using a wide spacer between carb and manifold with the bungs attached to the underside of the spacer, so downstream of the DCOE body.
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HealeyPassion
Jedi Warrior
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Patrick, that is quite a bundle of snakes!! Who did this? Looks like a very high end build!
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HealeyPassion
Jedi Warrior
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HealeyPassion
Jedi Warrior
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That's quite a project Jedi Knight. Couple concerns... based on my experience, you might find you have way more air than you need with those big Webers… can you choke them down? On my last EFI car I used the SU's as air valves (injectors down stream)… gutted the SU's... put a 1" aluminum block with the injectors between the SU's and the manifold here's pic. With the injectors upstream could be tougher.
Rob Glasgow
Jedi Knight
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Are those some kind of solid brass freeze plugs below the bunch of snakes chrome headers? I've never seen anything like them.
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HealeyPassion
Jedi Warrior
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Rob, looks like an aluminum block... so maybe a DMD all aluminum build? Hopefully Patrick knows.
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I don’t know who did these, but I love the artistry in them.
twas_brillig
Jedi Knight
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Steve – the Webers are 40DCOE bodies sans venturis; the 40s were pretty standard as dual carbs for these engines, back in the day, so I’ve got my fingers crossed regards the air flow concerns you raised.
When we first started trying to prototype this thing (fancy word people with adequate budgets can use; ‘cobbling it together’ is more appropriate for me), the available space between the cylinder head intakes and the brake booster, as well as clearance to the starter, were the primary concern.
We adopted the 1 inch spacers towards the end – after we’d had the bungs welded onto the DCOEs, tried thinner spacers, and then found some 90 degree ells that allowed us to mount the air cleaners vertically so the brake booster was no longer a limiting factor.
If we do need to reduce air flow, I’m thinking that we could fit the venturis back in (I’ve got two sizes, plus they’re available in 2 mm increments starting at 28 mm). And if the whole thing doesn’t work (and if we can figure out why), we might follow your example and add injectors and a fuel rail to the spacers or buy another set of bungs from SDS and modify them to fit into the spacers. However, there might not be enough clearance to the starter to keep everything hidden underneath.
Touch wood, we’ll be trying to start it sometime in January. We’ve had 3 ft. of snow to the end of November, so not a whole lot of driving initially.
When we first started trying to prototype this thing (fancy word people with adequate budgets can use; ‘cobbling it together’ is more appropriate for me), the available space between the cylinder head intakes and the brake booster, as well as clearance to the starter, were the primary concern.
We adopted the 1 inch spacers towards the end – after we’d had the bungs welded onto the DCOEs, tried thinner spacers, and then found some 90 degree ells that allowed us to mount the air cleaners vertically so the brake booster was no longer a limiting factor.
If we do need to reduce air flow, I’m thinking that we could fit the venturis back in (I’ve got two sizes, plus they’re available in 2 mm increments starting at 28 mm). And if the whole thing doesn’t work (and if we can figure out why), we might follow your example and add injectors and a fuel rail to the spacers or buy another set of bungs from SDS and modify them to fit into the spacers. However, there might not be enough clearance to the starter to keep everything hidden underneath.
Touch wood, we’ll be trying to start it sometime in January. We’ve had 3 ft. of snow to the end of November, so not a whole lot of driving initially.
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HealeyPassion
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Twas_brilling, FWIW .... I've read a lot of articles on fuel injection and one of the best sources for me has been "Performance Fuel Injection Systems" by Matt Cramer & Jerry Hoffman. You'll find alot of helpful info in this and it has most of the math needed to figure out various component needs. Good luck with the project. I have found it fun learning about and building efi systems. Here's a link to the test we did back in Feb. on the manifold design I'm using on this build. I've built another manifold since then (pictured earlier in this thread) which, while functionally similar, has many design changes.
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twas_brillig
Jedi Knight
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I've got that book - won't claim I understand all or even some of it! Simple Digital Systems started out years ago with a retro-fit automotive EFI system, but have pretty much switched over to the aircraft industry as the automotive EFI after-market has increased by a few zillion participants. A buddy had converted his old BMW to EFI and suggested that SDS was probably more appropriate for non-tech folks like myself than MegaSquirt et al, plus being local. Dunno if that was good advice or not (aircraft tend to run constant rpm) but we'll bang away at it.
The SDS advice has been (from my understanding) consistent with the reference you suggested; I guess we'll find out when we try to (1) fire it up and (2) see if it revs and (3) if we can drive the thing. Our son has a 2002 with a later 2.5 BMW six and a turbo that the chap who built it converted to MegaSquirt. From about 100 hp at the flywheelwith a 2 litre 4 cylinder he's got 271 hp at the rear wheels on low boost from the six. And the brakes are more impressive than the hp - the previous owner/builder did an amazing job.
Enough babbling at my end: good fortune to us both on our exercise. And I'll hopefully be throwing happy comments onto this thread in a month or so.
Thanks for your thoughts, Doug
The SDS advice has been (from my understanding) consistent with the reference you suggested; I guess we'll find out when we try to (1) fire it up and (2) see if it revs and (3) if we can drive the thing. Our son has a 2002 with a later 2.5 BMW six and a turbo that the chap who built it converted to MegaSquirt. From about 100 hp at the flywheelwith a 2 litre 4 cylinder he's got 271 hp at the rear wheels on low boost from the six. And the brakes are more impressive than the hp - the previous owner/builder did an amazing job.
Enough babbling at my end: good fortune to us both on our exercise. And I'll hopefully be throwing happy comments onto this thread in a month or so.
Thanks for your thoughts, Doug
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HealeyPassion
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Here is a short 1 minute video of my first start of my rebuilt EFI AH engine. The first start is really the first time we tried.
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HealeyPassion
Jedi Warrior
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Answer to "those involved"; Besides the EFI stuff which was Ric Navarro, Chris Mack, and yours-truely, the engine has a head extensively modified by Hap Waldrop (Acme Speed Shop in SC), a custom cam by Dema Elgin (Elgin Cams in CA), rocker arm assembly with reprofiled rocker arms by Gary Patrick (Rockers Arms Unlimited in CA), machining by Ridge Reamer in CO, and assembly by Ted Ax (Ax and Allies in CO) and a bunch of other details.
Steve
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