Ah, delicious irony...

[mrv8q]

I had to go to my FLAPS today to get a rebuilt starter for my "luxury" Japanese car. And you know I just had to do it in my LBC... how many times has it been the other way around?

BTW, the rebuilt starter for the Japanese car was 2X the price for rebuilding the TR3's!

Best, Kevin Browne
'59TR3A #58370

 

[Andrew Mace]

Been there, done that...many times over the years! Always kinda fun to jump-start a late-model Toyota with a dead battery ... from a '62 Herald 1200. Or take the Herald down to the NAPA store to pick up pricey front brake pads for the '95 Honda Civic. Meanwhile, when the Herald does need something, it almost seems as if I'm not paying much more for a given part than I was 20-25 years ago for the same part...and they tend to be a lot less expensive than the same sorts of parts for the '95 Civic!

 

[TriumphGT6]

My family used to have money before my dad was let go of by Ford. My first car I drove daily(It technically wasn't mine) a 1994 Jaguar XJ12(Dad's Old Car), and it was so pricy to get parts for.

Buying parts for the Triumph is such a deal. Oddly enough, the Triumph has had less problems than the Jaguar ever had.

 

[tdskip]

My 1999 Saab just died last week so I had to take the '68 MGB to make sure I got to work OK.

(sorry about the MGB reference)

 

[Banjo]

[ QUOTE ]
My family used to have money before my dad was let go of by Ford. My first car I drove daily(It technically wasn't mine) a 1994 Jaguar XJ12(Dad's Old Car),


[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
Worked for Ford and still drove a Jag!
Of course, Ford owns Jag now, but not then.

 

[sammyb]

Interestingly enough, when Ford bought Jaguar the conventional wisdom was that Jag quality would increase. In actuality, both Ford and Jaguar quality went down.

The same prediction was made for Chrysler and Mercedes. Chrysler quality has remained pretty steady (meaning not so good.) Mercedes has plummetted!

I've been left stranded by my '02 Corvette twice, my '69 Corvette twice, my Oldsmobile Intrigue twice, my TR3 once (and that was right after I got it, and the clutch slave turned out to be bad.) The Expedition has never left me stranded, but I've lost at least one cylinder on multiple occasions. I've never been stranded by my Dodge, but when my brother had it (he drove it daily for 10 years,) it once had the thermostat fail. I also bent the shift linkage in it once (a weak-point in the car.)

So all-in-all, my old cars are on par with my new ones.

 

[tdskip]

I thought Jag quality in the last couple of years has become pretty darn good now that they have things sorted.

Hope so anyway, I'd like to see them pull it off.

 

[swift6]

I too thought that Jaguar's reputation soared in the mid nineties after the acquisition by Ford. Like to the top five on J.D.Powers for customer satisfaction etc... It was a long road of recovery from the horrible reputation that Jaguar earned in the late seventies and early eighties with the trouble in the whole JRT (Jaguar, Rover, Triumph) group following all the labor troubles that plagued the entire British Auto Industry.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[shorn]

I own a 2000 S-Type Jag 4.0, and while I like the car, it has had it's share of issues. Twice in the first 20K miles it developed an oil leak from the valve covers (one side, then the other). Now, an oil leak from a British car is not all that unusual, I guess. Except that both times the oil leaked out of the valve covers, down onto the spark plugs and wires, shorting out the car and leaving me stranded. At least my Healey oil leak serves some useful purpose, that being a rust preventative undercoating. I also learned that I should not start my Jag and drive it out of the garage just to stop it and wash it. The auto choke will load it up on gas and it is impossible to restart without pulling the plugs.

 

[swift6]

[ QUOTE ]
The auto choke will load it up on gas and it is impossible to restart without pulling the plugs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm. My 1978 TR8 also does that, stupid water chokes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[sammyb]

The perception is based on Jaguar scoring very well on Initial Quality, which is a study that records problems in the first three months of ownership. In 2004, Jaguar scored its best ever result -- 98 problems per 100 vehicles, placing it third overall (behind Lexus and Caddy.) The average for the industry was 119.

However, the tell-tale reliability study is VDS (Vehicle Dependability Study,) which charts 3-year reliability.

And in this test....

Jaguar had 310 problems per 100 vehicles, where the average was 269, the best (Lexus) was 162 and the worst was 472 (Land Rover.) Volvo was also extremely poor with 346. Ford brand was right behind the average with 276. The only Ford marque to score above average was Lincoln, and studies do show that Lincoln, Buick and Caddy owners are less likely to report problems, since they tend (on average) to be less aware of the condition of their vehicle. (I've always joked that with an average buyer age of 72 years old, Lincoln's slogan should be "The Last Car You'll Ever Own --- Literally!"

My inlaws have a 2000 S-Type 4.0 and a 2002 Lincoln Navigator. Both have been extremely problematic, and the Jag dealer proved to be worthless. They couldn't reproduce a problem that I could reproduce like clockwork. (It was a power steering issue, and I kept saying "park the car with the nose pointed down a hill overnight to reproduce the problem." They finally said "ohh, only when it's parked on a hill" (and they had been told that a dozen times over six months of trying to address the issue.

Their comback: "Umm, we don't have a hill, so I guess we're out of luck."

I offered to let them borrow my floor jack and a block of wood.

After six months of botching -- they finally realized after all the power steering parts they had switched out (often installing wrong parts,) they had NEVER bled the power steering system once. AIR BUBBLES!!!!!!

The perception that Jaguar's quality has improved is mostly based on initial perception, but long term ownership experience still supports that Jags (like almost all Ford, GM and Chrysler-owned vehicles) are complete piles of poorly engineered junk.

Interestingly, the accepted bottom line in quality is that automotive issues are no longer due to bad workmanship, but are engineered into (or not engineered OUT) a specific vehicle system. Automakers send cars out with known problems, but it's less expensive to fix under warranty than redesign. Hence, why Chrysler/Dodge trannies always break, Caddy tranny electronics always malfunction, why Corvette fuel gauges get "contaminated," and all GM 3800 V6 engines will need a new intake within 150,000 miles (usually closer 50K, though.)

I'm rambling ... Sorry!

 

[swift6]

[ QUOTE ]
The perception is based on Jaguar scoring very well on Initial Quality, which is a study that records problems in the first three months of ownership.


Interestingly, the accepted bottom line in quality is that automotive issues are no longer due to bad workmanship, but are engineered into (or not engineered OUT) a specific vehicle system. Automakers send cars out with known problems, but it's less expensive to fix under warranty than redesign.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for clearing that up. Makes sense with the Whole J.D. Powers rating. As for the failure to engineer problems out of an existing design... Sounds like a certain software manufacturer from the PNW.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[sammyb]

As a former software guy (not for Microsoft,) it's similar in a couple ways, but extremely different in most. The major difference is that cars are a very closed system. In general, you don't have many external plug-ins -- and in fact most plug-ins void the factory warranty. Therefore, it's much easier to predict what faults will occur.

On the other hand, software...and operating systems, in particular, are the complete opposite. Their primary purpose is to interact (and work well) with everything.

While most people like to blame Microsoft for everything, most problems you tend to get with programs are caused by a third party software designer. Now don't get me wrong, MSFT's software isn't perfect, but after spending so many years inside software operations, it's amazing how many times an engineer or user blames Bill Gates, but it turns out to be the way that engineer codes or the rinky-dink software the user installs that bombs the system.

Inevitably there will be errors, just like there will be things on a car that go wrong. The mark of a good company is how the entity responds. BMW has a great track record of taking care of its customers. GM, Ford and Chrysler -- not so good. Microsoft has been good and bad (but better lately.) Apple has usually been extremely bad. Sun -- not so good. IBM-- extremely good.

Ahh, I could talk about quality forever /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[TriumphGT6]

I loved the Jaguar. BTW - The Jaguar buy was finalized in 1990. The Jag had power and on top of that was spot on reliable. When something broke we fixed it permanently, with Japanese parts out of my dads Honda crap(Electrics) pile.

I currently drive a 1991 Lincoln Town Car with 85,000 miles, 9,000 on the rebuild. It was stored from 1993 to 2004 in heated storage as it had spun a main bearing. I was given it by my dad's friend, and it was in mint shape. It just needed a rebuild. $200 later, and almost 13 months later, its been a great car.

I get 18 city and 25 highway, and after I rip the cats out this spring(test piping it) I expect that to go up. It uses the specified regular and gets good old fashioned oil every 2500 miles.

Ford Quality hasn't ever disappointed me, but oddly enough, my dad didn't own a Ford until 1985 when he was given a company Town Car. He worked at Ford from 1974 to 2001. While working at Ford he owned a 1971 Charger Superbee, a 1963 Corvette Coupe, a 1968 Corvette Al 427 Coupe, a 1962 Renault Dauphine, and a 197? Pontiac Ventura 350A. Then the TC and the Jaguar were two of the three cars that he owned from Ford, the third being a 1989 Ford F150.