TR4/4A Advise asked on TR 4 a frame collision/issue

[hama61]

Hello,

I am busy working to get the Triumph TR 4 a irs on the road again.

In its previous life the car had damage to the chassis ( deformed/ shortened by approx one inch on the driver side see picture ) I have no real idea about the impact to the rest of the frame beyond but it is difficult to imagine , that there is no other damage to the frame, if the front rail has been shortenend by almost an inch i wonder, what kind of collision it could have been. Maybe there are members who could figure out a scenario what could have caused this kind of damage.

As repairs have to carried out. I wonder what the best solution any thought on this are much appriciated.

Option 1 Cut of the front and have a replacement welded in but no idea or guarantee to the rest of the frame

Option 2 Using a replacement chassis ( see picture 2,3 and 4 ) Needs some attention to have it repaired. Suggestions on tips and trics are more than welcome.

Option 3 using the front of the replacement chassis welded to the existing chassis, if so what would be the best plan to carry this out

Regards,

Harry

 

[charleyf]

One additional option is to buy a new frame. I believe Ratco has them.
You need to make sure that any used frame is straight before investing any repairs.
Attaching a portion of one frame onto another must be done to guarantee that the finished frame is straight. This would be my last option unless you are talking about a minor piece of the frame.
Charley

 

[malbaby]

I would not repair the "replacement" chassis as there will still be inherent weakness due to the existing rust.
The most likely scenario is a front corner impact, and the owner did not bother to repair the rail when the body was repaired.
If you did not want to remove the body, then just remove enough parts to access the rail for a repair.
That part of the rail is not a structural section, and I doubt that the chassis integrity has been compromised..[need to check the steering rack mount]

 

[Rut]

I would love to see the rest of the damaged frame, but I suspect there’s more to it than the front portion. IF it hasn’t done any damage past what we can see and there’s no suspension involvement, I would graft on a replacement section. That said, the only way to tell besides a through visual inspection is to go by the frame measurements using the procedure outlined in the manual. A quick check with a tape measure could reveal gross damage.
Good luck, Rut

 

[hama61]

Hello,

Thanks for the replies so far

@ Malbaby That part of the rail is not a structural section, and I doubt that the chassis integrity has been compromised..[need to check the steering rack mount] Can you help with the measures ?

@ Rut I will make some additional pictures. As i have no manual i have to figure out the measures ( do you have them perhaps )

regards

Harry

 

[Marvin Gruber]

My recommendation would be find another frame. One and done. Eliminates future issues.

 

[hama61]

@ Marvin unfortunately the frames are not easy to find where i live.

I did some measuring on the places where i have access and found out the following:

As from the calibration hole ? in the middle ( in the front vertical frame bar ) I measure to both outsides of the frame 28 centimetres.

On the deformed side ( drivers side) i measure from the vertical front chassis bar 12.2 centimetres. On the passenger side i measure 12.3 centimetres.

On the passenger side I can see, that there was a piece welded in. This arm ( picture 3 ) at the passenger side is 1.5 centimetres longer, than the deformed one on the drivers side.

What should be the length from the front vertical frame bar to the end. As on this frame it has two different sizes.

 

[Rut]

It looks like there’s been a lot of damage repaired and not very well. If you can put the car on a lift, you can measure from the same point on the right rear to the left front and do the same measurement from the left rear to the right front. Regardless of what you find you really need to remove the body from the frame to do a quality repair, so you need to plan accordingly. A good frame shop would be the best route to go if you plan on repairing it.
Rut

 

[malbaby]

28cm is correct.
Follow "Rut's" advice and check the diagonals from under the car along with a close inspection of the chassis integrity.
If all that is Ok, and you do not want to remove the body from the chassis, then I would do a cut and shut on the front ends of the chassis rails with the front off the spare chassis.

 

[GilsTR]

Looking at the O P living in the Netherlands....
Quite possibly he will have more difficulty finding a good used frame laying around than some of us might.

Gil. NoCal

 

[hama61]

Good day

I have done some measuring and marked with colours in the PDF hope it will be clear and helpful

The orange line measures 171.3 cm

The red line measures 172.3 cm both to exactly the same spot at each side of the frame

I wonder is 1 cm compared from one side to another a lot for these cars ?

The blue line measures on each side 11.3 cm ( measured at the reinforcement plate for the lower wishboe brackets ) highest point of the chassis rail to the vertical front bar ( text in photo says 12.2 at lowest side

The front ends are on the passenger side 24.5 cm and on the drivers side ( deformed part ) 23 cm

Like to learn your input and knowledge

regards,

Harry

 

[malbaby]

I would also like to see diagonal measurements taken further back...eg diff support or rear end cross member.

 

[Rut]

Good day

I have done some measuring and marked with colours in the PDF hope it will be clear and helpful

The orange line measures 171.3 cm

The red line measures 172.3 cm both to exactly the same spot at each side of the frame

I wonder is 1 cm compared from one side to another a lot for these cars ?

The blue line measures on each side 11.3 cm ( measured at the reinforcement plate for the lower wishboe brackets ) highest point of the chassis rail to the vertical front bar ( text in photo says 12.2 at lowest side

The front ends are on the passenger side 24.5 cm and on the drivers side ( deformed part ) 23 cm

Like to learn your input and knowledge

regards,

Harry

Harry,
Not the worst frame damage I’ve seen, but it needs a proper repair. The previous repair leaves a lot to be desired and I don’t think I would trust the POs welds. I’m still in favor of removing the body, drivetrain, and suspension and having a pro shop do their magic. The good thing is that these are pretty basic cars and barring rusted bolts it’s pretty straightforward to pull the body. Please buy a manual so you can familiarize yourself with the construction of your car and take your pictures to a frame shop and ask their advise.
Rut

 

[hama61]

Hello

I had taken some other measures from the rear end as suggested and i was surprised by the outcome. Both measurements are almost identical.

My guess is that there were two different damages before. Could it be likely that the damage occured at the driversside was the result of hit of an an obstacle ( for example a pavement ) and thus deformed the front frame. I cant see any signs of repair nor was for example the fender taken of.

The damage on the passenger side was attempted to be repaired ( fender was taken of and poorly repaired I noticed as well, that some welding was done from the inner fender to the Falence. I will create another thread with ideas how to carry on with this.

 

[Rut]

Hello

I had taken some other measures from the rear end as suggested and i was surprised by the outcome. Both measurements are almost identical.

What would be the ideas to carry on

That’s good news, but the front includes the steering and suspension mounting points and it has to be correct.
Rut

 

[malbaby]

Ok... the main chassis is unlikely to be bent...so that only leaves the repair of the front rails.
You need to decide on if you are doing a body off resto of the chassis.
If just the front rails, then a cut and shut with internal plating via plug welds for strength.
Adequate access is required, with engine out for a neat job.

 

[Tybalt]

It is a pricey option but Revington TR in the UK offers the frames on an exchange basis. You might try contacting them and seeing what they have to say regarding cost, shipping and the core cost (cost charged until they get your frame back for them to rebuild). You might even talk with them to get their opinion about rebuilding your frame and shipping it back to you.

Welcome to RevingtonTR

www.revingtontr.com

Page for TR4A IRS frame, outside of UK the 20% VAT does not apply:

CHASSIS FRAME TR4A IRS

We offer a comprehensive chassis service supplying complete chassis in a variety of finishes and also supplying individual chassis parts, many of which were not available originally as separate items. The chassis can be supplied: - Unpainted. Etch primed only. Etch primed and painted black...

www.revingtontr.com

 

[malbaby]

IMHO...if you are intending to spend big dollars, buy Ratco rather than use Revington for a rebuild.

 

[hama61]

Ok... the main chassis is unlikely to be bent...so that only leaves the repair of the front rails.
You need to decide on if you are doing a body off resto of the chassis.
If just the front rails, then a cut and shut with internal plating via plug welds for strength.
Adequate access is required, with engine out for a neat job.

Hello Malbaby,

Measured the front suspension and mounting points as well. From the angle mentioned in the last pictures to the suspension on both sides 18.5 cm. Problem is what it looks like the front rails. I will pull out the engine for this repair. Will post another thread with addtional questions how possibly repair.

 

[malbaby]

Hello Malbaby,

Measured the front suspension and mounting points as well. From the angle mentioned in the last pictures to the suspension on both sides 18.5 cm. Problem is what it looks like the front rails. I will pull out the engine for this repair. Will post another thread with addtional questions how possibly repair.

Glad to assist....basic repair is to accurately cut the rails off so that there is space to plug weld plates [two or three is sufficient, preferably top and bottom if only two] inside the remaining front rail stubs...have the plates long enough so that the same plug welds can be done on the new rail sections when mated up...then seam weld the outer joins....make a jig so that the new sections are in the correct place and do not move when welded in.