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Advice on licensing/pricing one's art sought

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William

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Hey! So, I've been in email communication with a person on Flickr, who is asking if I might want to allow three of my photos to be used for packaging and catalog use. It's photos of a car, to be used for a slot car that may be made this coming year.

So, I found a quickie chart for costs, and used the lowest quote per license ($700 each, for production of over 10,000 units), and said that since the production would likely be less, that the price is certainly negotiable. I also made sure to say that I would retain the copyright for the pictures.

I got a reply today, saying that it would be for 2000 pieces (the packaging) and catalog production, plus the customer* wants an unlimited contract where the photos can be used any time and any purpose for this product (I imagine this to mean that they'd maybe want to use it on a second production run, or for in-store POP, or magazine adverts as well). So far, I'm okay with that.

I'm not overly concerned with making a fortune off of this (it's the first time it's happened, so I figure I shouldn't be asking for huge prices). I'm also okay with licensing these photos exclusively to that company for slot car production, however, I do want to retain the copyright, so I can continue to use them in my portfolio and/or potentially sell them on my own (as prints, not licensing them for other uses).

Anyone got any ideas on this? Prices? I imagine I need to get a contract written up (I've seen a few sample ones here and there) and get some real terms of use down in writing. So far it hinges on how much I'm asking to use the photos-I'm certainly open to just having a lump sum to cover licensing all three to this company.

Thanks!

-William

*it sounds like the person I've been communicating with does searches for artwork for other companies, and the slot car manufacturer is a client of his. I should also mention that it sounds like this company is in Germany.
 
Firstly: You were evidently up at Elkhart Lake a couple of weeks ago for the Vintage Races. Barry (BAZ) and I were there too, and from the photos it looks as though we probably walked right past you a few times without knowing!!! From the OSCA, I would assume that you were there on the Saturday.....

Secondly, $700 to license the photo for their unrestricted use seems reasonable, especially if you make certain to retain copyright. Which photo is it? One suggestion I have, is that you also stipulate that you receive credit for the work should it be published by them in any catalogue or magazine?
 
Yep, my Dad and I were there on Saturday. We used to go on Sundays but this year was Saturdays (we also did the Sprints and the KIC)-I think it will be thusly from now on. There was much more to see than Sundays usually seem to have-fewer people leave on Saturday. Dad actually said it's the best event we've been to in years, just lots to look at and watch, and good quality too.

That OSCA's a pretty sweet little car-we've seen it before a few years back. But I do like Etceterinis.

I was already assured that I would receive credit for the photos on the packaging and catalog. They want to potentially use three different shots (it's the Cheetah, FYI, the red one), so I quoted $700 per photo. I may do a package deal that makes the individual photos less than that, if only to get their business. I do wish he'd just tell me what the budget is, so that I can decide if it's worth my while. I mean, if they're going to make a comedy offer of $50 for all three I'll tell them no (and assume they're not serious). If they say they can only stretch to $400 per shot I'd probably agree to it. I guess that wouldn't really be "negotiating" then, would it?

-Wm.
 
#1 - You're right to retain copyright. You are licensing the use of the image, not the ownership. Register the images with the copyright office and do it now. https://www.copyright.gov/register/ and google for hints. $35 per session, you can do tons at one time. <span style="font-style: italic">DO IT</span>.

#2 - unless the company you're dealing with is directly dealing with the owner of the vehicle and has an agreement to use the images of their property, you may well need to have a property (for the vehicle) and/or model release (if the driver can be identified in the image). That's important to have, especially if the company you're dealing with decides to run your pictures in a bunch of magazines, books, or other publications without the vehicle owner's consent - he can go after the magazine or you, or both.

One stock photo dealer I supply says:
<span style="font-style: italic">
Model Releases

Images containing any identifiable human faces require a model release for each person depicted in the image. If the person in the image is a minor, a model release must be signed by a parent or legal guardian (minors are children under 18)

Property Releases

Images containing any property that may be reasonably connected to a person’s identity require a property release. The more recognizable and unique the property is, the more need for a property release. Keep in mind that property releases are not just for buildings, they are for cars, pets, etc… When in doubt, obtain a property release.</span>



#3 - if you go through with it <span style="font-style: italic">without</span> model or property consent forms on-file you may want to let the photo-credit slide to keep your name out of it. Something to consider.

The only reason I bring up the release-form subject is it <span style="font-style: italic">sounds</span> like these folks may not have a serious business relationship with the vehicle owner. If they did, they most likely wouldn't be willing to spend a lot of money to get pictures of it.

#4 - Finally, and I hate to mention it, but be sure you have the right to license your own images. At some tracks and some events part of the contract to enter the site is a prohibition against or a limitation on commercial photography. Since you're on private property that is a legitimate limitation the property owners can place on your activities. Sometimes part of the price of admission is the inability to market your work afterward. That policy (if it exists at all) may be printed on the ticket, a sign at the gate, a sign at the ticket office, or elsewhere. I kind of doubt there is one but - it might pay to do a brief check to make sure. Unless the venue was ISC or some other big corporation I don't think I'd lose much sleep over it. That's just me.

Along those lines the owners of the property where the photographs were made may have a blanket model/property release for photographs made there that you might be able to negotiate use of. Every NASCAR and Grand-Am ticket, for example, has a form of blanket model release notification that enables them to use images of <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> for commercial purposes.


Just a few things to consider.
 
Rick-glad you like 'em!

Scott-I totally didn't think about obtaining a release from the driver/owner of the car. It makes me wonder if the company is going to make a model of that specific car-if they are, then perhaps the owner told them no. I simply imagined that they were looking for photos of that specific car, and had taken care of licensing the livery, body shape, etc. I'll have to look at that.

I'll probably copyright those three, if I can scrape together the money.

-Wm.
 
Forget those three, take <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> your pictures and resize them to 400x(whatever) size with reasonable compression, put them in a zip files (check the size limits I can't remember what they are) and send them all :smile: . The $35 is per session, not image. I send several hundred at a time, it's not a big deal and will give you some backing if somebody lifts an image off your photo site and uses it illegally.
 
Oh-see I misread that. I also misread the website, which led me to believe I had to copyright each one. More research needed.

-Wm.
 
aerog said:
Forget those three, take all your pictures and resize them to 400x(whatever) size with reasonable compression, put them in a zip files (check the size limits I can't remember what they are) and send them all. :smile: The $35 is per session, not image.
Click to expand...

There are waay too many folks who don't realize this.

Carry a bunch of model release forms in your bag. Even a "blanket" release form is preferable to NO release.

Google: "Photography and the Law". A good primer for getting info.
 
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