Advice on BJ8 purchase

[nevets]

Looks pretty clean on the surface. The close ups show old rubber parts. I could be wrong but it appears that they were masked off when the car was painted. Shouldn't the frame color and body color match? Could be a cosmetic makeover to pump up the selling price. I would tread carefully. You should have someone knowledgeable look it over.


After looking over the pics again, I am upgrading my opinion.
Still think it's a good idea to have someone knowledgeable inspect it. Love is blind.

 

[Healey_Z]

Hey Fred,

Congrats on your purchase. I'm new to the Healey scene too, but functionally, they are pretty much just a car. It sounds like you (smartly) are looking to guard against the expensive, I got ripped off homerun. Here is what I would do:

- compression test
- on a rack going from bumper to bumper looking for rust and repairs
- does it start, idle smooth and not overheat
- go for a 1/2 hour min ride, try hot starting multiple times
- does it accelerate smooth
- does is pull to a side on a straight road
- does it pull to a side when braking hard
- play in the steering, unusual sounds when cruizing
- thorough inspection on the quality of work and making sure everything (guages, overdrive, radio, lights, top..) works as it should.

And if it passes all the above, knock on the nicely finished wood dash for good luck that everything continues to operate as it should

 

[Bob_Spidell]

...
My concern would be a hidden disaster that makes the car impossible or exorbinantly expensive to repair. I would be most worried about frame and structural rust.
...
Fred

I pointed out the (somewhat) incorrect and (definitely) incorrectly installed U-bolts not as a cosmetic or concours issue. That is sloppy work on a fairly critical component (and a potential safety issue). I have to wonder what happened that required U-bolt replacement (not a 'known' wear/defect item for a Big Healey). Makes me wonder if something happened to the rear axle that damaged the wings.

My guess is you'll find some major work was done on the rear wings (but of course I could be wrong). If the work extended to or above the character/swage line the typical repair panels won't fix it--they only go to a couple inches below the line.

Please let us know what you find.

 

[AUSMHLY]

I checked my Austin Healey Club USA member book and unfortunately the closes member is in Dallas, maybe a 6 hr drive.
I'll keep looking. Any leads on inspectors that would travel?
Fred

Hello Fred,

I had a look in my resource books.

The 2011 Austin Healey Club USA resource book lists 3 people with a BT7, BJ8 and AN5 living in Oklahoma. One person in Tulsa owns a BT7.

The 2011 Austin Healey Club of America lists 17 members, 3 owning BJ8's living in Oklahoma. One person in Tulsa owns a BN1, BT7. One person in Tusa owns a AN5.

What year is your book?
Hopefully, one of these people can be of help.

Roger

 

[HEALEYJAG]

I would want to talk to the previous owner ASAP. Its amazing what they will tell you AFTER they sold the car to a dealer. The dealer should be willing to give his name.

I REALLY dislike the HEAVY black paint on the frame. Looks like they went NUTS with a rattle can..YUCH!!


Get an inspection......


Best of Luck:

Pete

 

[AUSMHLY]

The car looks great, and hopefully it's sound without too many projects that will, yes will not maybe, let you get aquainted with tinkering time.

Being I've spent way too long on my last project, the convertible top, I did notice in one of the photos that the second bow is not in the correct place. It looks to be about a couple inches from the rear bow. It should be about 7 1/2"

Here's your photo followed by mine. (These are photos of my old top which was Everflex. Soon I will be posting photos of my new top in the Sunfast cloth.)

The top can be fixed by adjusting the two straps that hold the bows in place. Moving the bows may require adjusting of the material at that rain channel, and that will take a little work, for you'll need to unscrew it, remove the press on clips, release the material that is glued to the channel. Reposition, reglue, reclip, rescrew the rain channel back in place. See...your tinkering already

Cheers,
Roger

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Note the top photo in Roger's post above, and this photo of my repainted but mostly (then) untouched BJ8 (you can see some blistering of body filler on the dogleg from a previous repair, but the wings are otherwise original):

Note the difference in the wheel cutout (although photos of different sides, the difference should be apparent). The rear wheel cutouts should be a nearly perfect three-quarter circle. The one on the for sale car appears to have had its rear corner trimmed-off. I think there has been major work on the rear wings (again, could be photographic distortion).

I'm not beatin' on this car; I just think the buyer should know as much as possible what he's getting.

 

[bighealeysource]

Hey Fred,
Ditto to what everyone else has been saying and double ditto to getting it checked out before you close the deal. Call the guys in the North Texas Austin Healey Club chapter of the AHCA. They have an extremely active chapter and I have dealt with Jerry Wall, one of the officers and a great guy. Checked to see if anyone in Amarillo and didn't see no one listed but Jerry might know of someone up there in the club or perhaps an inspector to look at it. Go to AHCA website which is : www.healeyclub.org and you can look up the NTAHC chapter info and talk to one the guys. Don't want to put his number on the internet but you can PM me if you like and I'll get it to you or go to their site as above. As far as the pictures of the BJ8, looks nice but noticed a couple of things I would look into as well - cannot tell for sure but the rocker panel under the door should have a very clear cut seam where it joins up with the dogleg area and it looks like maybe the dogleg and the rocker is smooth which would indicate someone filled it with bondo. Again, only the pic of the driver's side might show this and could be done right, just cannot tell. Plus the swage line - the crease running down the side - does not line up from the door to the rear wing. Like I believe Bob Spidell said a couple of times, may have had some work done on the rear fenders ! Good luck and call the NTAHC, one of those guys has got to know someone to look at it for you.
Regards,
Mike

 

[bighealeysource]

BTW Roger, love your newer version of the classic British maintenance tools !!!

 

[TulsaFred]

Thanks for the input guys, very helpful.

As far as work done on the car, I spoke with the dealer and asked. He said when they looked the car over they did find,using a magnet, some areas where filler had been used. He said the work was done well. If this is true, I don't see a major problem with it, as I would expect a restored 1967 to have had some work done. As long as it is not noticeable and was performed professionally.

So I'll check the rockers, doglegs and rear fender character lines. If there are nice but imperfect, what do you guys think?

Since it will matter, I don't mind saying, the sales price is $42K. That is a lot of money, but seems like a pretty good price for this car. Happy to hear opinions otherwise.

The car is said to have very nice interior, paint, and to run, turn, start and stop well. They tell me they would grade it as a number two or very high number three condition car.

Fred

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Thanks for the input guys, very helpful.

As far as work done on the car, I spoke with the dealer and asked. He said when they looked the car over they did find,using a magnet, some areas where filler had been used. He said the work was done well. If this is true, I don't see a major problem with it, as I would expect a restored 1967 to have had some work done. As long as it is not noticeable and was performed professionally.

So I'll check the rockers, doglegs and rear fender character lines. If there are nice but imperfect, what do you guys think?

Since it will matter, I don't mind saying, the sales price is $42K. That is a lot of money, but seems like a pretty good price for this car. Happy to hear opinions otherwise.

The car is said to have very nice interior, paint, and to run, turn, start and stop well. They tell me they would grade it as a number two or very high number three condition car.

Fred

Fred,
You have PM'd me a few days ago about the car. Everything this post is good information to give the car a good going over before buying it. My particular point of interest is the vin ID tag. I've never seen one that looks like it had been restamped or something else. All the VIN tags I've seen have been sharp clear stampings. My car had a switcheroo and the correct vin was on the RH front shock tower. Fortunately, it will be corrected, legally.

Patrick
NTAHC "Prez"

 

[TulsaFred]

Thanks Patrick

While the VIN Tag looks dodgy, the VIN chassis number is 42783, and this matches the body number plate (appears original), and the engine plate also matches the body number plate. I'll be checking the front shock tower.

Fred

 

[rjc157]

whats the asking price

 

[TulsaFred]

42K

Opinions on price?

 

[TulsaFred]

Here's my list of issues gleaned from the good people on this board:

1. Possible work on doglegs, potentially altering the 3/4 round rear wheel cutouts and possibly the rear fender character/schwage lines

2. Convertible top/hood bow number three too close to number four

3. Frame painted black (?should be body color??)

4. Ubolts on rear springs not correctly installed or not correct bolts

5. according to seller "some body filler" but done well

6. according to seller the fuel gauge does not work or intermittently works.

Agreed price pending inspection is $42K.

Keep in mind that the car is not being advertised as a number one car, but a number 2 or very high number 3.

On Hemmings and Ebay the MkIII Healeys in good condition (various levels of "restored" cars) are asking between 52K and 78K for the most part. I suspect these cars are in excellent condition, but certainly may have some issues if we looked at them closely. Perfect concours quality cars can go for even higher prices it seems.

And this car is a desirable MkIII ph2. It is also an apparent original 1967-only "golden beige metallic" car which I am told is one of, if not the most desirable of colors (according to John Heffron and his golden beige metallic registry).

So this is how I'm seeing it and why I decided to plop down the deposit. However, as has been said, love is blind, and I LOVE the way this car looks.

So please help me be objective....I am a fool for cars.

 

[AUSMHLY]

Fred,

All frames were painted body color. Being this car was originally Gold, question would be, why is the frame black?

Engine compartment, the break/clutch reservoir and holding bracket are green, they should be black.

Are the two silencers under the drivers seat correct? If so the car will sound louder than it should, being it is missing the two silencers that run under the petrol tank, having the exhaust tips exiting on the right side, rear.

I also noticed the door panels aren't really correct.
I'll post the difference for you to see here.

I'm just pointing these things out, being your asking us to look the car over for you.

All these things can start adding up in time and money, if you plan on correcting them, or all the items in your list can be used to discuss if this car is as good/correct as represented. I'm not familar with the term #1, 2, 3 etc, so I can not rate this car in those number. I would say this car looks like a really nice driver, but there are some big ticket items (black frame) that would take a lot of work to change if one were to say the car is "correct".

You might use the list your putting together for negotiation, when/if you move forward.

Cheers,
Roger

 

[HEALEYJAG]

May I reiterate trying to talk to the previous owner???


I would be VERY carefull with this car and get a GREAT inspection!! I have never bought a car that was "understated". They have always been less than I have anticipated. Go slowly my friend.

Pete

 

[TulsaFred]

HealeyJag,


I am a little concerned in that the dealer seems to have little to no information on the car other than to say the previous owner had the car since 2000 in Delray Beach Florida and performed some restoration on it. They have no records or documentation.

I learned through the BJ8 registry that the car was originally purchased in Winnipeg Canada. The second owner was also in Winnipeg and the third owner in Quebec. The Quebec owner sold the car to the 4th owner in Delray Beach in 2000. Steve Byers of the BJ8 registry gave me this info, and said the only contact he has had has been with the Quebec owner. He will only give the contact information to the registered owner of the vehicle, so I couldn't get it.

The car was sold in 2007, it seems like a long time for the dealer in Amarillo to have owned it, so I'll have to clarify that.

The dealer tells me that the car runs very well and they "feel" the motor has been rebuilt. They didn't have compression test figures and said that you can usually tell by driving it if there is a problem with compression on these "small displacement" motors.

I guess the bottom line is, it would be nice to have more documentation and feel better about knowing who has done what and when. On the other hand, that is asking a lot, and not everyone keeps this kind of information. I suspect a lot of buyers are not nearly so careful.

Since I can't find a Healey person near Amarillo, I may have to settle for an inspection by someone less specialized. There is a guy in a classic car restoration shop in Amarillo with 30 years experience restoring cars (mostly muscle cars). He will inspect it for me and seems to be better than nothing. His experience restoring classic cars would give basic knowledge and experience regarding rust issues, body issues, and basic mechanical/suspension, etc. I expect he's seen his fair share of old car problems. He says the dealer selling the car has a pretty good reputation.

For me it will come down to: if the inspection from the nonspecialist finds no major problems and my own inspection fails to find frame rust or obvious out of line/wavy/poor workmanship body panels, and the car starts, runs, stops and turns well, then is this enough to support the decision to buy?

My $2000 deposit is supposed to be refundable if I don't like the car when I inspect it next Friday.

 

[Keoke]

Call 1 860-456-4048 ask about cost of their gold report. Appraise any car anywhere anytime.--Keoke

 

[TulsaFred]

Keoke,
do you have any experience or knowledge of this company (Automobile Inspections, LLC)?
thanks
Fred