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About the forum

Basil et al.

I love this forum and hope you can find a way to continue. I don't know enough about e-business to know if it is reasonable to generate enough income to pay you a reasonable salary. It probably isn't, though you have a great mailing list -- periodic requests for donations might be annoying but could be very effective. I have other groups that do this, but I have no idea what they make. I know you can make the mass mailings, you do it for the e-rallys. I would be glad to make periodic donations, I would prefer that to membership dues.

I wonder if the forum could be migrated to a free site such as those hosted by AACA or Hemmings for various car clubs. It would not have all the features, such as photo albums, but the post and respond groups could be there.

All the best, Basil, and thanks again for the initiative you show every day with the BCF.

Bill S
Albuquerque, NM
 
I know one small blog that pays for itself, and then some using Google's Adsense. I also know a large corporate forum that includes Adsense. Both of course, are free to the users. I recommend you think about it.
 
Silverghost said:
Let me see if my logic makes sense here:

9000 members (I think I heard or saw that somewhere)
x$12 - $1/month per member - anyone NOT have 3.34 pennies a day?
=$108,000 annual gross income

9000 members
x$60 - $5/month per member - who can't spare 1 or 2 gallons of gas once a month?
=$540,000 annual gross income

9000 members
X$120 - $10/month per member - 2-3 gallons of gas per month
=$1,080,000 annual gross income.
Hi Peter,
The reality is there are about 1400 members that have made more than 20 posts. It's hard to know how many questions someone would ask where they would feel a membership would be worthwhile.
 
to tag on to GT6_Mark, this forum is much better than the vendor forums (at least I see it that way), also british car forum provides a lot better info and communication among people in my experience...
 
I don't think you can say exactly there is 9000 members (I saw that same number you mentioned from another posting).... Some percentage of those 9000 could of only posted once or twice and never come back or don't hardly use the forum. Then you also need to remove the number of people who wouldn't want to pay for a fee based forum. So realistically the number could be quite lower...
 
I thin this should be put to a vote as to "would we be willing to pay?". I think that it would be better than 95% in favor. We have grown to take this free forum for granted but I think we would all gladly become subscribers to this terrific forum. It has become a big part of my life and an extended family for me. I love meeting the people who post on the forum. There are no words that can thank Basil enough but money CAN talk. Fifty bucks a year would be cheap considering what a movie cost today and is over in 2 hours. This forum is intertainment and education both of which costs heavy today. Maybe more. Ten bucks a month? Basil has a product and we are the consummer. He should set a price to reflect what he needs. He needs to feel that his hard work is appreciated.
TH
 
would'nt it be worth while for us the members, to inform the vendors that we support, to support the forum.except for this forum,I would not be aware of many of these vendors.
 
Like all of us who have taken the time to reply here, I too would miss the BCF. The regulars we have come to know, feel like, family. I enjoy reading the posts. I learn from them. Heaven knows I appreciate the help I have gotten over the years. Non of this would be possible, with out the man behind the curtain.

I too wish I could offer some advise to turn this situation around.
Hopefully something will work out Basil.
Sincerely,
Roger
 
Using 1400 as the base number, you get:

At $1 per month, $12 per year, = $16,800 - clearly not enough to even cover costs.

At $5 per month, $60 per year, = $84,000 - probably more viable, maybe break even?

At $10 per month, $120 per year, = $168,000 - this has got to going in the right direction at this point.

And keeping with my earlier post, that's 2-3 gallons of gas, per month. Drive 55 for a week, there you've got the $10 bucks. Skip 2 Starbucks ONCE, you get the idea.

My experience is that people will abuse and misuse "free" things. My wife and I have run weekend training seminars that we offered 2 "scholarships" for and NEVER any takers, NEVER. But if we reduce the price, then we got people. When a person has to pay for something, they value it more. They respect it more. It has become something of value, on a different level.

No doubt the BCF is an AMAZING value. We wouldn't be here if it weren't. What happens though when you charge for what once was free is something like: "There is this GREAT forum I joined, and you get a,b,c,d,e and f and it's ONLY $60 a year, what a BARGAIN THAT is! They've got Jags and Healys and TRs and all kinds of cool stuff, excellent sources for repairs, racing, restorations. You should join!"

I don't know where BCF is going, but I'll be here as long as it is. I am worried though that Basil is reading any of this. He is not accepting PMs any more. Does anyone know if he is monitoring the discussions??
 
I buy from Moss and from British Parts Northwest. Mainly Moss. I buy after I learn and get confidence from this Forum. I can't imagine they wouldn't pay a decent fee for advertising and promotion. I only buy from BPN because they are a sponsor. No other reason.

Like others, I'd pay an annual subscription no questions asked.

I don't know what the last four years could've been like without this Forum, Basil. It's been a life enhancing experience.

Give us plenty of notice before you do anything, and thanks for all you do Basil.
 
OK, here's some hard love. Skye over at the MG experience has silver memeber $25.00 a year, and gold members $50.00, they pay him via Paypal, makes it easy, he's got the best MGB forum on the net period. Skye also has google banners, which Basil I know you have long objected to, but the raw fact is most of us don't even notice them, and you never, ever here any complaints about them, if they make money to run the forum, then why the heck not?????

I seriously thought about being a contributing vendor here, but the fact is it kinda expensive, I can advertize with Classic Motorsports Magazine alot cheaper. I think folks not in the business look at folks like me and think I'm making a killing because I build a engine that cost 5,6 7, 8 grand, no about the same profit margin, just more expensive parts. In my little meager business everyone has their hand stuck out for a hundred bucks a month, you have to learn how to say no to survive, you alway looking for a value, defensive advetising if you will, but not at $100 on month. Skye has a good a forum, but he still sucks ant supporting local vendors and giving them low cost advertising, cost effective or not. In these tougher times, I look at it like this you got to do more for less. I'll put a banner up here in a skinny minute Basil if I can do it for say $150 a year, but if you want a $1000+ a year, sorry I can't afford it, I'm trying to survive to, and remember the grass always looks greener over the fence, but guess what it pretty dry over here as well.

A few things have always turned me off about this forum, one being , heavens forbid if I shoud run across a deal on certain part, and want to offer it here, I' can't, if I do it vvry discreetly, I'm skumbag. Basil offer me value, and I'll sign up tommorow, keep imagining me to be millionaire, and I won't.

Superite, a company I work for, yet another company selling a fine product for our cars, fighting for survial in this business, quit being a vindor here, why, cheaper alternatives. Look at another Moss vendor that is a supporting vendor here, look I know the volume fo product he sells and I know his profit range, the math isn't working for hime to be a supporting vendor here, he doing his part vending more for hobby than a living, can he continue to be a supporting vendor here, no he can't.

Persoanlly I think forum advertizing is not even be tapped into yet with LBC forum, ot even close, either like Skye, he not offering it, or like here, it just not a competitively price product, learn your competiton in the advertising choices in this business and you can get amny, many vendor wanting to sign up. I was already to do it, until Tony told me what it cost, and my reaction, was, you're freaking kidding right.

Basil, you're a fine man, but if yu want to ake this thing profitable, you need to change your way, if you make this a pay to post site, it's toast, bury it right now, put a tombstone on the grave, but if you wan to edcuacate your self into the amrket palce of LBC advetising cost and offer a bargin in tough times, you'll probably have more folks than you can handle being here. Kinda like the BMTA, when it was $100 atear, everyone in the industry wanted to be a aprt of it, at $250 a year now, not so much.

Also you have to provide a product and I think there are way to help certain forums here falling under the mark. Let's face MGB are the 800 pound gorilla of the LBC industry, and the they need their own forum, and then one for the MGAs as well, The MG forum here is lame at best, kinda boring if you ask me, but the Spridget forum here rocks, so continue to let the Spridget forum do what it has been doing, but tie to get onto the back of that 800 pound gorilla and make it work for you. The new MGB forum would have moderator or contributor that are experts in their field, thorw them a bone to come here, a forum is only as good as the people who post good information on it, post about about floor mats and carpet colors get old, and don't cause anyone to rush here.

Basil, you've got a awesome product here, you just got to got the funds it needs to make it survive even put some money in your pocket, and you will do that with google banners, and more reasonable vendor advertising, we're all struggling too. Also look at Skye's silver and gold plan members, go over there an look at how may people there do that. Make this site the place a LBC vendor HAS to be because of the traffic here and the low cost of advetising here, I always found it better and more profitable to sell more for less than less for more.

I type lousy, Basil you need to call me sometime, and we can brainstorm I'll share my ideas with you, I've been selling stufff since I was knee high to grasshopper. If this forum isn't atleast breaking even bud, time to change your stratagy, because it can
 
OK, here's an idea, I think any regualr here can see value in.

Silver member: $25 a year, you get to post more than 1 picture file in a single post, the one picture thing here erps me, always has.

Gold member: $50 a year I can post more than one picture in a post, and I as individual can post any of spares for sale within the forum of interest, in other words, Joe Midget: "hey guys I have this parts 72 RWA Midget part car, I want a 100 bucks for it, any of you interested. Sorry a classified section buried in a clost somehwere on a site doesn't work.

Platinum member: $100 a year, this membership is designed for person in this business like me, whether it a part time ventire or full time venture I get to mention stuff I have for sale, along with my normal post in the normal forum without being dinged. In other word, say in the Spridget forum, I show apicture of a new wheel I'm offering and I post a picture of it there, state a price and tell folks to contact me if they aer interested. I also can post a product that works for specific car aor many cars in the Trador or claissified forum.

Get rid of your elborate classifed sections here, and just make a classified section in forum, like Skye's trader section, you could make this avaiable for startig new threads just by silver, gold and platinum members, anyone can respond to threads but only premier members can start threads.

Use your hits stats to sell other companies, but make it such a bargain folks can't say no.

Make it real easy for your premier members to pay, set up a paypal link so folks can do it easy and quickly , I anin't lick stamp or writing checks there days, sorry it's a new world, amke it easy and simple to pay or forget it.
 
I've skimmed over the replies to this current issue and I agree that pay membership is the way to go.

- I currently pay $6 per month for a site called Club Penguin for my daughter. It is charged directly to my Amex every month so I don't even notice it. She uses it everyday.

- I pay $10 per month for XM radio. It's charged directly to my Amex and I don't even notice it. I use XM every day.

- I pay $40 per month for my internet access. It gets debitted from mt bank account and I notice it somewhat because its a little high, but I pay it and use the internet everyday.

I use this forum about everyday but don't (yet) pay my way. why? Because stroking a check and driving it to the post office is outside my normal routine. Like so many things I do, if you set this up as a must pay and put me on direct billing, I'll probably be paying for it after I'm buried. (My wife would never know how to turn it off.)

I can't be the only one in this situation. If you have 9K members you will lose only a small percentage if you make it a pay site with a small fee (I'd say $6.99 would work perfectly) that is so unnoticeable people will just take it in stride, but at the same time do a direct bill through a credit card or bank account. After my mortgage, car payment, insurance, utilities, etc.(all payable online or through direct billing0, $6-$7 is nothing - and when I'm looking to cut costs its not the $6-7 BCF membership that's going to matter or make a difference.

Once you establish a solid revenue BASE, then I'd go after more advertisers. For example: I have a Sunbeam, but I noticed that the action on the Sunbeam forum is minimal. I get my info from the SAOCA site, plus my parts from Classic Sunbeam or Sunbeam Specialties. I would almost not know these existed through the BCF (Read: Opportunity). I'd also look at conquesting or linking other sites. In these tough economic times it might be the opportune time to pick up weaker, under-supported sites (and their subscribers). As you noted, the resources you put into the site are "sunk," but gains/losses aren't realized until the asset is sold. If you sell now, you might be selling at a low point in the market. If you hang on, you could come out in a better position (with potentially bigger market share if other sites close down) when things again turn up.

My thoughts. I think after what you have done to establish the base, the BCF has potential for you.

MXP
 
Steve_S said:
Are you suggesting that it costs $85,000 per year to run BCF? That seems a bit extreme!

The monetary costs are just one, though an important aspect.

Basil devotes a lot of time and effort (and personal involvement) to the BCF and deserves some fair reward for those efforts.

In economics, there's the concept of "opportunity costs"- if Basil devoted a similar effort to generating income... what would that yield?

And could the BCF with its advertizers and members provide a similar compensation?

I'd like to think so....
 
The pay to use site is one alternative, but do I get to test drive for free, lets face it, almost everything in the internet word now claims looking from the outside, if you pay to come in, you'll love it so, most newibes will just breeze right on bay, and never give this place a second look.

It's simple give the people a value for their money, up your membership and you get this, up it a bit more, you get this, up it even more, you get this.

Any of you that don't go visit the MGexperience, you need to take scroll over there and look at all the silver and gold stars beside poster's names, and Skye ain't giving up anything for that, so Basil takes it one step further, and if you upgrade, you get more, a better forum experience. OH and just keep it simple, this site has too many layers, put it all out there at finger's reach. For example I never visit the classified section here, because it's hid off in the closet of this site, put it right at the fornt and realize we do live in a capitalist world, better to gain from than that than try to harbor it. Oh and the honor system don't work, Skye want 5% of the sale on the trador section, I'm sure he rarely ever get it. , thats stupid, just charge me a samll fee to be able to post classifieds and I and many will take you up on it.

Look bottom line salemen run the world, if you're a engineer, inventor, whatever at the end of the day the saleman has to sale it for you, Bill Gates ain't computer guy, he's a saleman. Give the saleman in all of us a cheap place to horsetrade our stuff, and the we can quit sneaking over to the PM box, and you have more money for this site. Bottom line you can't swim upstream, people who think horsetrading and selling our stuff among us is bad, need help, it's what this hobby is all about, it's how we get and keep these cars on the road. Check the PC crap at the door, and make this site what it can be, better and profitable, be a SALESMAN !!!!!

In other words, quit begging and start selling.
 
Well I wasn't going to wade in on this again, but, here goes. I don't have a ton to add that hasn't been said and I became a silver member last time we discussed this. A couple of thoughts.

1. Sell or give the board to someone who can maintain it: BMTA?
2. Share out the moderating duties
3. Make it convenient to pay
4. Include "dealer" category/rates so people can promote their wares but we can see that there is an interest.
5. Don't make membership voluntary. give limited access (including the ability to post) to non members but, for instance, no ability to post pics/ no ability to view only "new" posts when you sign in.
6. Go for adsense but not for paying members.
7. Market to/ host club websites

I'm sure there is more. As someone who has this type of conversation daily with churches, you can't eat your cake and have it too. Churches aren't businesses but revenue has to match expenses - including the time of the leadership.

If you're willing to open your books a crack here Basil - there are sharp folk who could be more precise.

If you are going to shut the board, at least give the opportunity for the members to find it a different home.

Basil, I've said it before and I'll say it again - your love for these cars and your willingness to do all you have done is appreciated more than you can know!
 
Hap, Basil instituted what seemed to be a very well structured tier of subscriptions ranging from basic to platinum just about a year ago. This was instituted on a voluntary basis, and a number of us jumped on the subscription wagon right away in the hopes of forestalling the impending demise of BCF. Since then, sadly, I have seen NO appeals or incentives to encourage members who have not subscribed to do so. There should be an ongoing appeal, or incentive to do so!!

I agree with most, if not all, of your suggestions to Basil, re: the classifieds etc. You make some excellent points. Perhaps if this wonderful place was "read only" to non-subscribers, more people who glean the knowledge and support offered here would be prompted to subscribe to participate in the give and take. I, like you, have desired to offer some of my services in my posts to friends here, but have avoided it out of respect to Basil's rules that dis-allow it!

I would like to add to the other voices that suggest Google ads etc. as ways of supporting this forum, they would not be intrusive to the overall experience here (see Jay Leno's Garage and then tell me that the ads bother you!!).

I would like to add that I for one would even love to see Basil "get rich" off his efforts!!! He deserves it for all he has done for all of us who have this passion for LBCs.

As a post-script, the way to wealth is to find a widget that sells for a nickle that everyone wants rather than to try to sell an expensive specialty that maybe only a few can afford!!

PS: It is really nice to have the "new" forum back!!! :thumbsup:
 
roofman said:
This is truely sad news. Have you considered a subscription only foum like other forums ( 6pack is $25)?

A little off topic but the 6-pack forum is free. Club membership is $25 but you do not have to be a club member to post on the forum or the email list. 6-pack has around 4,000 registered forum members but less than 1,000 paid club memberships and less than 40% of those memberships have ever even registered on that forum. That forum, however, is dedicated to the TR250/6. This forum offers a much broader spectrum of the LBC community. Even though I am a 6-pack member and I do visit that forum, I'm much more active on this forum than 6-Pack.

I would (and have) paid to be a member on this forum, I don't think I would for the 6-Pack forum without the other benefits of the club membership and magazine.
 
Hap Waldrop said:
I seriously thought about being a contributing vendor here, but the fact is it kinda expensive, I can advertize with Classic Motorsports Magazine alot cheaper.

Maybe your comparing apples and oranges? If you look at their Marketing Kit you will see that their print ads start at $315 for a single issue ad (tiny 1/12th page black and white) or $285-per if you run the same ad 6 times ($1710 total in that case). Now obviously I don't do print ads, but if you scroll down on their marketing info page you will see that a rotating banner ad on their forums is $300 PER MONTH! My rate is a fraction of that at $40 per month with a 10% discount if you sign up for a 1-year campaign. And in fact the banner ad you get for their $300/mo is only 90 x 120 pixels...my banner ads are much bigger. So at least comparing the banner advertising, if anything my rates are too low, but therein is the dilemma.

Tony, for example, is a paid advertiser, but he is a small business like you. He is able to pay my rates, but could not possibly pay Classic Motor Sports banner prices ($300 PER MONTH or $3600.00 Per Year!!). My thought is I need a way to garner support from the larger vendors at something approaching normal market rates, but at the same time have a way to support (and get support from ) smaller vendors like yourself at something that they can afford.
 
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