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tosoutherncars said:
Basil,

One of the most successful forums I've seen is VWvortex; see https://forums.vwvortex.com

It's completely free to members; looks like the whole thing is funded mainly by banner advertising. Some vendors choose to sponsor entire forums. Any vendors wishing to do business on the site must register and pay a fee. Non-members may view all content, but may not post.

It's a very popular site, and pretty much anyone who is a VW / Audi enthusiast (and internet-literate) is a member. I would strongly suggest that you look into a similar format.

HTH,
Duncan
Click to expand...

There are many more VWs and VW vendors than British cars and related vendors - that's why it works for them. Also notice they have over 400,000 members - we don't even have 10,000 yet, even after 8 years. My feeling at this point is, the British car hobby just doesn't have the following to make this a paying venture.
 
My guess is that there is no specialty hobby forum that is structured as a standalone for-profit enterprise. At best, there maybe one or two “lifestyle jobs/business” (maybe like the VW ones noted elsewhere.)

The key here is what Basil wants from his forum.

If subscriptions and advertising won’t or don’t work to support Basil’s objectives, then Basil needs to walk away.

Clearly, we users see value in BCF or else we would not be here.

If BCF is a collaborative/co-operative child, then let’s create or find a collaborative/co-operative parent.

The strategic debate could go on and on, so I’ll toss in a prescriptive “solution.”

Basil, pitch the three (or whatever count you have) industry heavyweight vendors to buy BCF from you (if BCF is not generating profits then valuation is going to be tough) and create an enterprise based around BCF that overtly shows them as supporting “sponsors.” The forum would remain open access. The enterprise would pay a webmaster/moderator to maintain and grow the site and its related activities. Internalizing the risk-premium needed by you to operate would reduce costs, risks would be shared, and the co-operative would provide a stable platform for incremental growth. Any concerns about BCF being a sub-optimal investment would be allayed by the fact that this would be a new opportunity outside the normal business model of the supporting “sponsors” which would otherwise not be available.
 
I fully understand your position, and there is no reason to go out of pocket for anything if you don't want to. But rather than let the site simply die, I hope you would pass it on to someone willing to pick up where you left off. Just throwing it away would be like sending a classic car to the crusher rather than give it to a good home! Just my 2.34 cents USD. :smile:
 
Basil, to counter your "yes, but" I would see a broadly supported ("independent"), and multi-marque, forum has having much superior viability that a vendor-specific site. Certainly, to me BCF offers the benefits of both on and off marque discussions.
 
Basil said:
<span style="font-size: 12pt"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Dear Members,



I know for a fact that there are vendors on here who benefit greatly by conducting business behind the scenes (via PMs) but apparently the benefit they gain is not worth their supporting the forum as paid advertisers. Also, I only have a few folks hosting their web sites on our servers and have had no new web hosting activity in a long time. The same is true for paid subscriptions which have all but dried up. Classified ads are few and far between as well.



Basil

<span style="color: #FF0000">PS: If I do decide to shut down and members still have active subscriptions or advertisers have active campaigns, I will make pro-rated refunds to all.</span>

</span></span>
Click to expand...




you should it make it known to these vendors. call them on it! these vendors are making a mint on your dime.

mark
 
Basil,
Just what is the cost (hard dollar) it takes to maintain this site?
“Out of pocket” monies per month?
Asking because I’m completely ignorant of this sort of thing.
 
I am too lazy and hurried to read all comments, Basil, but if this forum required a reasonable fee I would be happy to pay. It would be especially convenient if credit cards were accepted.

Maybe people could participate (including posting?) for 30 days or so, and then must purchase membership to continue.
 
Dug said:
Basil,
Just what is the cost (hard dollar) it takes to maintain this site?
“Out of pocket” monies per month?
Asking because I’m completely ignorant of this sort of thing.
Click to expand...

Not something I want to discuss in an open forum, but suffice it to say that most months the outflow exceeds the inflow...and if you count the value of my time (which I have concluded is worth something) then even on a good month I'm well below minimum wage.
 
Then Basil, for your good and the good of those who really care, please post an amount in the form of dues needed to keep it going. Let those who want to join as a member do so and those who do not, will be locked out after a set period of time. As I said during last years go around with this, it is a business, no matter what some people out there might think. And businesses stay alive by making a profit, so start staying alive and charge us.

There is nothing wrong or immoral about doing just that. You provide a service and we use it and pay for it. If one does not wish to pay, they may not participate in full or possibly any form. No different than thousands of businesses or private clubs all over the world.
 
I copied this from where I originally entered it:

Let me see if my logic makes sense here:

9000 members (I think I heard or saw that somewhere)
x$12 - $1/month per member - anyone NOT have 3.34 pennies a day?
=$108,000 annual gross income

9000 members
x$60 - $5/month per member - who can't spare 1 or 2 gallons of gas once a month?
=$540,000 annual gross income

9000 members
X$120 - $10/month per member - 2-3 gallons of gas per month
=$1,080,000 annual gross income.

The saying goes many hands make light work. I say it is a small price to pay to keep something SO outstanding and beneficial to so many active.

Basil, don't feel bad or have ANY remorse about making this a pay site. YOU HAVE EARNED IT! I don't know about the fees and expenses that go into making this site function, but just based on what I typed above, it doesn't look like it would take big dollars per person to get you where you need to be.

Since I like saying so much, here's another one: Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Well, I for one will gladly pay for the cow. I can't even imagine how much time and money I'd spend to go various places and join various car clubs, meetings dues, etc. for the information, comraderie (sp?), and help I can can get in one place - here.

If you decide to do so, count me in for $25/month plus the fee for the Gold membership I already have.
 
A pay-forum is fine with me but making it so will unquestionably cut into the number of members and thus the number of posts, responses, etc.

What makes BCF so valuable is the breadth and variety of experience and knowledge that we share and can access. Even if much of what is said is strictly empirical nevertheless having the readership reduced by 1/2 or more (very likely) decreases the forum's value as a tool.

I expect nothing for nothing, have made contributions in the past and would do so again, but I wouldn't be very happy if the only answers I got to my questions were my own!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]What makes BCF so valuable is the breadth and variety of experience and knowledge that we share and can access.[/QUOTE]

No question about it. But the reality of the situation is that it cannot remain free any longer,so take your pick. Pay for 1/2 as much data (maybe more if those who say they care really do) or have nothing at all. That's not much of an option to me.

Does everyone really expect Basil himself or Basil and a small amount of others to provide free access and bandwidth/data storage/Wiki library, etc., forever to anyone who comes calling for help? No one here runs their own home budget or business like that, so why should this forum be a expected to do so?
 
Paul;
I agree that Basil should not carry the financial burden of this forum.
My concern is his personal Burden!!!!!
If we all donate cash and he is still left with the workload then have we gained? NO!!
Along with helping financially, we should give our time and effort to this cause.
Basil should make money, and have time for himself.

JMHO

Dave

P.S. I will give whatever is necessary to keep this going.
 
I choose to read the forums rather thouroughly- I usually can find what I seek to know before engaging my mouth, however I wasn't aware that your situation was so dire. I work in the IT field and have a very clear understanding that the internet is no magic show- it costs money to host whether you do it yourself and it costs to find a host. Considering the size of this bulletin board- and the fact that you allow graphics hosting- in addition to the sheer amount of time you have to put into a website this size- is a big financial undertaking and a time consuming one.

As you consider your options, I would be willing to put my money before my mouth here also. I'm not doing all that hot, but I would be willing to make a $25 contribution at the time.
 
I own or have owned several British marques and the attraction of this forum is that I can exchange information with people across many makes of British cars. I have become highly dependent on this place for the information I need to keep my cars going and I enjoy sharing what I've learned with others.

As such, I am certainly in the "I'll pay" category. It's definitely worth it to me. The comments above about a pay site potentially having fewer visitors and users is certainly worthy of careful consideration. So... Basil, if you do decide to move to a pay site, would it be possible to offer initial visitors a 30 day trial period (after 30 days pay to have a full membership or your posting rights are void)?

I respect your decision whichever direction you choose even if that means closing the forum. However, you've created more than just a web site, this is a community and a unique one at that. I'd hate to see it go.
 
I'll add in that I'd certainly be willing to volunteer my time (I'm a web developer/DBA by trade) if it would help ease the time burden. This is a huge undertaking for certain, and I can respect that it's taking a huge toll on Basil.

I certainly respect whatever decision he makes, and I'll second Doug and many here that this is a unique community and worth preserving if all the details can be made to work.
 
Paul has reduced it to the basic point, we need to pay what it costs to continue receiving the product. Basil can determine pretty accurately how many of us would pay x amount, and how many could pay y amount. Could be a yearly charge with a monthly payment by credit card, discount perhaps for payment in full. I don't think several levels of membership work as well as general membership or perhaps two levels (x&y). Those of us who NEED this forum will pay for it. And I can think of three or four guys whose dues I would pay to keep their presence and knowledge here, magnetic personalities notwithstanding!

Basil, have you considered teaming up in some way with the numerous car clubs out there, you share the same audience.
 
I for one will be sad if the BCF closes. A few years ago I knew almost nothing about MG's and here I am two years later about to embark on my own engine build. As much as it saddens me, I have to think about Basil and how much he gives to the running of this forum. When he asked for Donations, I gave. When I sold some parts, I bought some merchandise. I am prepared to give more and give once a year if that is what it takes to keep the forum open.

I think even $15-$20 is nothing compared to the knowledge one can gain by joining this site. You can't even buy and LBC book for that little money.

Whatever his decision is, I respect it and hope all will be well.
 
Basil -

How about if you give Google's Adsense a try for a bit, we'll all happily click away at advertisers, and maybe give it 6 months to see how it all goes and see if that helps you bring in the dosh?

This is a great source of info, hate to see it go. I will pay dues also if asked... but my guess is Adsense will be an easier sell & potentially more profitable.

Best -
 
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