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TR4/4A A simple solution for separating axle and hub.
- Thread starter HAWAIICJ
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The early Lockheed axle and hub does fit with a splined mechanism instead of a taper, but it also has a splined, tapered locking collar that seats in the hub, and locks the hub to the axle shaft when the axle nut is tightened. I just went through this and had to source new locking collars from Australia.
Dan
Dan
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Andy Blackley
Jedi Trainee
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Ressurrecting an old thread, kudos to the Op Dave for his puller design. Using the same part numbers I ordered the nuts and bolts (enough to make two) from McMaster Carr last week. They arrived within two days, my local welding shop welded them together Friday. Total cast about $55 each. Today with the help of a friend my hubs were disassembled. We had tried the job last weekend with the axles still on the car using the M86 type puller. No dice using an impact air gun and 150psi air pressure, big sockets, breaker bars, hitting with hammers etc. This puller is massive and did the trick. As per Dave's method described above we removed the axle and hub assemblies and put them into a sturdy vice to hold the large 8 tpi nut. Using a large pipe wrench with a 3 foot extension we put pressure on the axle, then gave it a few hits with a big hammer. It came apart with barely a whimper. Smiles all around.
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Glad it worked for you. I made one of these, exactly as specified, and it didn't work for my two axles. When you calculate the force on the axle, it is significantly less than you can get with an ordinary hydraulic press. The advantage is that you can whack the thing with a large hammer, to shock it loose, which you can't do on the press.
When I get some time, I plan to make another one with a smaller diameter nut and finer thread, which per calculations should provide more axial force. The nut will be caged instead of welded to the larger one, so there is more movement possible when you whack it with a hammer. I hope that will do it.
Here's my experience: http://tr4a.nonlintec.com/drivetrain/#rearhubremover
When I get some time, I plan to make another one with a smaller diameter nut and finer thread, which per calculations should provide more axial force. The nut will be caged instead of welded to the larger one, so there is more movement possible when you whack it with a hammer. I hope that will do it.
Here's my experience: http://tr4a.nonlintec.com/drivetrain/#rearhubremover
Andy Blackley
Jedi Trainee
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Steve:
Your website is one of my "go-to" references - I honor it immensely. My buddy who helped me with this project is a retired machinist. He had the same comment about using a finer thread bolt, and if this thing didn't work we would have redesigned it along those lines.
One thing I forgot to mention was that instead of the copper disc used in the original design to go between the axle end and the face of the forcing screw we used a 1/8 inch thick disc of a steel alloy with lead that has some inherent lubricating quality. Used to make hydraulic fittings. Perhaps this provided a degree of freedom that helped when shocked by a hammer blow.
We used a very large pipe wrench with a pipe extension, probably about 3 feet in length, maybe more. With one of us hanging on it that would have supplied torque in the the range of 500 foot pounds, closer to 17.5 tons of axial force. Without a doubt the shock factor of a heavy hammer blow is crucial.
In any event I accept that we were lucky to get the two apart in the space of about 20 minutes.
Your website is one of my "go-to" references - I honor it immensely. My buddy who helped me with this project is a retired machinist. He had the same comment about using a finer thread bolt, and if this thing didn't work we would have redesigned it along those lines.
One thing I forgot to mention was that instead of the copper disc used in the original design to go between the axle end and the face of the forcing screw we used a 1/8 inch thick disc of a steel alloy with lead that has some inherent lubricating quality. Used to make hydraulic fittings. Perhaps this provided a degree of freedom that helped when shocked by a hammer blow.
We used a very large pipe wrench with a pipe extension, probably about 3 feet in length, maybe more. With one of us hanging on it that would have supplied torque in the the range of 500 foot pounds, closer to 17.5 tons of axial force. Without a doubt the shock factor of a heavy hammer blow is crucial.
In any event I accept that we were lucky to get the two apart in the space of about 20 minutes.
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Yes, I think that kind of force is what it takes. Also, using a harder washer under the bolt is a good idea.
It's interesting how much the thread friction reduces the axial force. You would think that a smaller thread pitch would increase the force a lot, but it's only modest, because of the friction. Making the bolt smaller in diameter helps most, because it reduces the friction. So, there's a trade-off: theoretically more force with a smaller bolt and nut, but the bolt and nut are more limited in the forces they can handle.
This is a lot like removing tie-rod ends, I think. My tie-rod remover alone usually won't remove them, but I tighten the remover and give the thing a whack with a hammer, and the tie-rod end invariably pops loose.
I bought a pair of axles and hubs while doing the TR4A restoration. They were advertised with the hubs attached. I told the seller that' I'd buy them if he could get the hubs loose. He sent them to a shop, which cooked them in the hot tank for a few days, and then got them apart (not sure how; probably a hydraulic press). I don't know if the hot-tanking helped, but at least they were clean when I got them!
It's interesting how much the thread friction reduces the axial force. You would think that a smaller thread pitch would increase the force a lot, but it's only modest, because of the friction. Making the bolt smaller in diameter helps most, because it reduces the friction. So, there's a trade-off: theoretically more force with a smaller bolt and nut, but the bolt and nut are more limited in the forces they can handle.
This is a lot like removing tie-rod ends, I think. My tie-rod remover alone usually won't remove them, but I tighten the remover and give the thing a whack with a hammer, and the tie-rod end invariably pops loose.
I bought a pair of axles and hubs while doing the TR4A restoration. They were advertised with the hubs attached. I told the seller that' I'd buy them if he could get the hubs loose. He sent them to a shop, which cooked them in the hot tank for a few days, and then got them apart (not sure how; probably a hydraulic press). I don't know if the hot-tanking helped, but at least they were clean when I got them!
mastaphixa
Jedi Trainee
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I built one of these (I used a 3" long bolt instead of 5") and it worked great! I did have to heat the hub with my map torch. Nothing crazy, just got it to the point where the grease started to smoke and the axles came out with no drama! Thanks for this.
Regards,
Steve Baker
Regards,
Steve Baker
Tr3aguy
Jedi Knight
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Hub Removal
Worked great for me but Dave actually demonstrated the process in real time because he is so close by.
Worked great for me but Dave actually demonstrated the process in real time because he is so close by.
mastaphixa
Jedi Trainee
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Would you provide more information about the 4' steel rod?
Sorry to bring this thread back after so many years! I am working on the rear axles on my 1961 TR3A. I have not found any other threads that explain this removal method and I'm planning to try it. I have bought the nuts and bolts from McMaster-Carr. I have a few questions:
1) When welding the two nuts together with a Mig welder, should the welding be done all the way around the nuts with no cooling break until completed all the way around?
2) Is it ok to heat the hub with a Mapp gas burner to help remove it? How much should it be heated? lI want to make sure I do not distort the hub.
3) When the hub breaks free of the axle, is it controlled by the nuts/bolt, or does it come off in a dangerous shot?
4) A question on the grease seal inside the hub: My axle has a fairly deep grove where the axle tube seal wore into the axle. I plan to use a Speedi Sleeve on that. The question, does the grease seal inside the hub also wear into the axle, and is a Speedi Sleeve required there as well? If required, is it the same Speedi Sleeve as needed for the oil seal position, i.e p/n SKF 99131?
Thank you!
Bob
1) When welding the two nuts together with a Mig welder, should the welding be done all the way around the nuts with no cooling break until completed all the way around?
2) Is it ok to heat the hub with a Mapp gas burner to help remove it? How much should it be heated? lI want to make sure I do not distort the hub.
3) When the hub breaks free of the axle, is it controlled by the nuts/bolt, or does it come off in a dangerous shot?
4) A question on the grease seal inside the hub: My axle has a fairly deep grove where the axle tube seal wore into the axle. I plan to use a Speedi Sleeve on that. The question, does the grease seal inside the hub also wear into the axle, and is a Speedi Sleeve required there as well? If required, is it the same Speedi Sleeve as needed for the oil seal position, i.e p/n SKF 99131?
Thank you!
Bob
mastaphixa
Jedi Trainee
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Bob, I can answer the first 3 items. #1 It really isn't critical how it is welded. #2 I heat the hub with map gas torch until the grease starts to smoke. #3 When the hub separates it is controlled. Nothing goes flying about.