A plethroa of talent

[BOXoROCKS]

Thanks Steve,for the posting,you have a great site.
The reason for my post is as I looked at Steve's site it reminded me again of the incredible amount of talent there is out there. Which makes me ask the same old question,why are our domestic auto makers in such deep trouble.
How many of us have been asked by others who have seen our cars,and said that they would love to own one if it were dependable.
I cant help but think,that there is somthing the automakers are missing,that the average car guy knows. Yes I realise about all the extranious costs and regulations they must comply with,but,...I just cant believe they cant over come those factors, and stll build a product the world would beat a path to thier door to own. I dont really expect a answer,its just a thought.

 

[69MGC]

Good thoughts. I've wondered the same thing.

Here are my thoughts on the subject. The car manufacturers are driven (no pun intended) by the bottom line and the constant pressure to show profit to the share holders. The manufacturers cater to the market segment that brings in the greatest profit. Hence we have seen the US manufacturers desparately hang on to the big SUV vehicles. I have to admit that the US manufacturers do make a good SUV. And, unfortunately that is where the biggest profit margin lies and even with the high price of gas these days the multi use vehicles are still what the public desires. SUV's are very useful vehicles for the US soccer mom market. And others of course.

The auto industry (at least the US industry) is very slow to change. Mostly because of the lack of vision at the higher levels of the companies and to some extent they're inablility to quickly bring a new vehicle designs to market.

And, I also believe that the Auto industry and the oil industry are in cahoots (is that a real word?) to some extent. The oil industry doesn't want fuel effiecient vehicles on the road, why that would cut into profits. Which brings up the point of alternative fuels. Heck right now big oil doesn't want mass amounts of alternative fuel vehicles, at least not until they can figure out how to capitalize on that production as well.

So, until we the consumer start to demand smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles, cool or othewise, we are going to continue to get hug mediocre, gas swilling tanks. I think that the public is starting to demand this and I think that Detroit is starting to hear the rumble in the distance. Let's hope that they can do something before it's too late for them and for us.

Thanks for reading my rants this far. Any other comments?

 

[Steve]

The europeans have a large number of smaller, fuel-efficient vehicles for a long time now, driven by high gas prices. You think we have high gas prices?

During the time that I was in europe the amount of smaller diesel-engined cars, from all manufacturers, was staggering. And doesn't Germany have stricter air-quality standards than most states except for perhaps California? I may be mistaken in this, and if anyone can provide information either way I would be grateful.

If enough people wrote in to the manufacturers demanding similar vehicles, then maybe there would be more incentive for them to form strategic alliances with european or Japanese manufacturers, such as the proposal that was rejected by GM not too long ago.

The mindset in Detroit has always seemed to be "bigger is better", and they are only recently trying to redress the balance, but Ford, for example, are embracing hybrid technology but have none of their own, having had to approach Toyota for their first-generation technology. Toyota are now in the third generation of their hybrid technology........

Are their customers not to blame for Detroit's mindset though? If they didn't buy barges, then the manufacturers wouldn't keep churning them out. That's the thing, if they brought over the smaller european vehicles or started making such vehicles on their own, would enough people buy them?

 

[69MGC]

I have a friend who has a Automotive Market Research firm and he deals with these issues all the time in his work. He says that small diesel engines are on the way to the US market but first they have to meet US pollution standards. Right now they don't.

New technologies are being implemented in diesel engines that will make it possible to get those great engines into US cars.

 

[swift6]

Don't forget that for a long time taxes related to the vehicle were related to the engine size and or fuel type in Europe. We never had that here so we never faced increased taxes for higher displacement engines, etc. So you could say that smaller, more fuel efficient cars and higher fuel prices have been the mindset in Europe as long as large fuel guzzling vehicles and low fuel prices have been the mindset in the US. While our current fuel prices seem high, we still have very cheap fuel. When inflation is removed from the equation, then our current gas prices are still below what they were during the fuel crunch in the 70's. Which is probably still why we (US) keep buying trucks and SUV's.

On the diesel front, I've also heard that one of the hold ups on cleaner diesels in the US is lack of the low sulphur diesel fuels in the US. That is changing as US manufacturers are demanding the lower sulphur fuels for their own diesel designs and should open the US market to more European diesel designs.

 

[69MGC]

You know that whole arguement that our fuel prices are still cheaper than Europe and if you take out inflation we still have cheaper gas than the 70s is all well and good to justify our gas prices today. But gas price increases are a psychological factor as well as an economic one. We still see that we are paying two times more than we paid several years ago. I don't take any solice in the fact that taking out the inflation factor means we still have cheap gas. It's still costing me $45 to fill my tank this year, when just two years ago it cost me $25.

Okay, so Europe pays $6+ a litre for fuel. So, they pay more than us. Let's add in the factor that the exchange rate is poor right now, so in fact we are paying nearly $6 a gallon, that puts us on par with Europe.

 

[swift6]

But gas price increases are a psychological factor as well as an economic one.

Okay, so Europe pays $6+ a litre for fuel. So, they pay more than us. Let's add in the factor that the exchange rate is poor right now, so in fact we are paying nearly $6 a gallon, that puts us on par with Europe.

No argument about it being a psychological factor as well.

Fuel costs are mostly higher in Europe due to a higher tax. Close to 80% (England) of the cost per liter is tax in most cases. Where as in the US the taxes range from a low of 8% (Alaska) to a high of 32.9% (Wisconsin). The US tax figures are from January 2006. If you looked at fuel costs minus the taxes, they would probably be more equal between the US and Europe.

Even factoring in exchange rates, fuel is still more expensive in Europe.

 

[14dna]

Another factor for having larger vehicles here is the amount of driving we do. In Europe the next town is usually 1 or less miles away. We all know how close they are here. Do you want to drive a 3 cyl. 2 passenger runabout 35-40 miles one way to work every day? Not me. The price we pay for fuel is relative to what we can afford anyway. When gas prices skyrocketed in the 70's we quit driving and went to somewhat smaller cars. Guess what? Prices came down as there wasn't the Market. The only way to solve this problem is to shrink North America, And I just don't know how. One man's opinion of course Dave

 

[Rob_P]

We still see that we are paying two times more than we paid several years ago. I don't take any solice in the fact that taking out the inflation factor means we still have cheap gas. It's still costing me $45 to fill my tank this year, when just two years ago it cost me $25.

And this wouldn't be so bad if oil companies were not posting record profits. I don't expect them to do it for free, but jacking up the price to make more money then they ever made before is what gets to me.

JMHO

Rob