Spitfire 78 Spitfire hard to start

[AustinJim]

First, let me thank the group for all of the good information available on this site. Reading other user's posts and getting replies to mine have been invaludable! Now, on to the problem at hand...
I have a 78 Spitfire that I'm slowly bringing back to life. In fact, this Saturday I took it for it's first drive on pavement in 11 years! I decided to attempt a state vehicle safety inspection Sunday and couldn't get it started! It's always been hard to start when cold. I finally resorted to using starting fluid and that did the trick. When it does finally start it stalls if I open the throttle. Could it be running rich? I'm sure I have some work to do on the carb but I'd like suggestions on where to start first (float, dash pot, etc).
Thanks for all suggestions!

 

[sammyb]

More likely the choke is not working, but there could be other issues. If you have a manual choke, pull the knob and look to see if it is fully engaging the choke on the carb.

An improperly set float will also give starting problems. While you're at it, make sure that the carb mixture is correct.

Other likely issues: bad points (or points set incorrectly,)timing is off, spark plug gaps. Unlikely, but possible is a fuel pump that is starting to fail.

 

[AltaKnight]

It sounds like a carburettor mixture problem rather than an electrical issue.
From your description it's too lean rather than rich. Pull the plugs and check the colour, if it's lean they should be whiteish, if it's rich they'd be blackish.
Top up the dashpot if it needs it, this slows down the opening of the air valve temporarily enrichening the mixture.
Try enrichening the mixture per the workshop manual (I'm not sure what carb(s) you have so can't advise how to do it) and if you can't get it right there then you may have an incorrect float level (too low)

 

[AustinJim]

I'll take a look at the suggested problems as soon as I can. In the meantime I thought I'd let you know that I have a single carb with an antomatic (water) choke. I think the model is 150cdse but I'm not exactly sure.
Thanks for the info so far!
Jim

 

[AustinJim]

More information: plugs are sooty (black). Smoke (which seems to be black) is coming out of the tailpipe. Black splatter is also coming out of the tailpipe. I'm trying to adjust the float right now.

 

[TRdynamo]

Sounds for sure like a rich fuel to air mixture. Correctly setting mixture should fix problem, although sitting for so long the seals in the carb might have went haywire. So if all attempts fail to fix carb, whether its you trying to fix it or a mechanic, I'd say a carb rebuild is necessary. Also, it would be a good thing to change the oil, as the richness of the fuel/air mixture probably diluted the oil with gas or heavy deposits. Also the spark plugs will have to be cleaned or replaced.

GOOD LUCK! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
-TRevor

 

[myspitfire]

Season's Greetings; Most likely in the(if so equipted)rubber diaphram in the Zeinth Stromberg cd150 type.It probably has tear in it.NEXT look at fuel flow,like at the mechanical fuel pump,it has a filter on top that will plug up take the top off the filter & lift out the brass screen & clean-it.While your serviceing the pump reseat the inflow & outflow tubes their a press fit & can work loose.,subsequently a possible fire hazard.But most likely just a simple fix. GOOD LUCK.IMPORTANT NOTE;Never drive your Spit INTO the wind while the tops down,it could come back and bite you.;-) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonono.gif

 

[urchin]

Hi Jim,

From 1988 - 1998, I ran my '78 Spitfire as a daily driver, year round, in Maine and throughout New England. Needless to say, I had a few adventures.

First off, if it's been sitting for a while, you could easily have muck in the fuel lines. Unhook the fuel line from the pump to the engine and have someone crank the car. You should see a healthy shot of gas pour out. Do the same thing where the line enters the carb body.

If you have gas into the carb, you should have fuel into the cylinder. If you check a plug, it will tell you a lot. As noted earlier, it should be whitish, not wet with gas or black with oil. If the plugs aren't clean, they won't fire and the car won't start. Brake cleaner and sandpaper will clean them up nicely.

If they're wet with gas [you'll smell it, too], then it's likely that they're flooding out. The water choke is held in place with 3 screws; if they loosen, then you can turn the entire assembly and open/close the choke unit.

While the plug is out, hold it with a set of rubber handled pliers [or plastic ones] and place it just a sbort distance from the valve cover. Have someone crank the engine. If you don't see a spark, then you need to look under the distributor cap.

Just in case it's simple, spray WD-40 over the cap and wires. Then try starting it up. If it fires, then you have a bad cap and/or bad coil wire.

Remove the cap and pull off the rotor. Make certain the cap has a carbon button underneath the coil wire plug in spot [they fall off sometimes]. Turn on the ignition and take a screwdriver to open the points. You should get a snappy spark there. If you don't, you may have a problem at the ground wire next to the condenser, or at the coil itself.

If you do get a spark, then turn off the ignition and move the fan belt to open the points. Go slowly until you see the plastic red or blue flange lift the points open on the cam lobe of the distributor shaft. If it's not at the .14-.16 range, then it's closed too much for an effective spark. If the points are really pitted or black, then they may not create a strong enough spark for starting.

Lastly, if you have the original electronic ignition still in the car, perform the spark plug test to see if you have any effective spark. When mine just crapped out I replaced it with a standard Lucas distributor [MG, TR, AH] and hooked the wiring up to the coil. It worked for the next 5 years.

Best wishes,

Jeff

 

[AustinJim]

Thanks for the detailed responses! I rebuilt the carb and adjusted the float height and I can start the car but it still doesn't seem to be running right although I think adjusting the float may have taken care of the richness. I never noticed this with the air filter installed but with the filter off I get pops back through the carb when accelerating (in neutral). Also, I'm not familiar enough with this engine to be sure but it seems to accelerate too slowly. Don't really know if this is a problem or just the way the engine is supposed to run. The last time I checked the plugs were black with soot. I'll clean them and see how they look after running in the current configuration.
Any suggestions on the popping back through the carb?
Thanks!
Jim

 

[RomanH]

Check the points gap, timing and the valve lash.