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Gordo

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My 3 has a TS56698L commission number and I believe it was made in 59. The title says 60. I don't have Piggotts's book to check and I am confused.

Also, my engine # is TS56687E. Isn't that a little unusual for the numbers to be so close together? From what I've read here and other spots, the numbers are more like 200 apart.

Thanks, Gordo
 
According to the Moss catalog, '59 models run from TS41630-TS 65123...
 
No need to be confused... in the days before 'intelligent' VINs it was common practice for Brit car dealers to simply consider whatever cars they had on hand to be current year models. Hence, a 59 build still on the showroom floor in 1960 (or 61 or 62) would just be sold & titled as the later year.

Engine numbers can vary a lot... makes sense that once in awhile a body & engine would happen to come together with numbers that were close. Not the most common thing but random chance works out that way once in awhile.
 
It's still very common today for cars to be titled in the year following when they were made ... lots of ads every fall for "next years model".
 
Hi There Gordo;

Check out my post that reads "TR3A Engine Sequence Numbers":

You`ll find that the Majority of Engine #s were typ higher #s than VIN #s: Orig Engines would be between 200-1000 above the Commission # & or Whatever was laying around:

The commission #s as stated here were Titled a specific yr when the Car actually got Sold & Delv: So; The Build could be a `59 but if Sold in `61; Thats what went on the Title:

Please don`t quote me cause everything has an "Exception to the Rule"!!!!!!

Regards, Russ /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banana.gif
 
Gordo said:
My 3 has a TS56698L commission number and I believe it was made in 59. The title says 60. I don't have Piggotts's book to check and I am confused.

Also, my engine # is TS56687E. Isn't that a little unusual for the numbers to be so close together? From what I've read here and other spots, the numbers are more like 200 apart.

Thanks, Gordo
Click to expand...

Very close to my car, TS 56882L, which was made on Monday August 10, 1959 between 9:50 and 11:30 A.M.

You can find out when your car was made by joining TRA and getting a Build Record. The Build Record will tell you the options and colors of your car, too. It costs $20.

Or you can get a BMIHT Certificate, which gives the same information.
 
Many things can happen...

My TR4's build began in early 64 (based on body number and engine number) then completed in Sept 64 (based on BMIHT cert) and thus got a commission number 7000 higher than the engine number.

After all that it was titled as a 65. When I brought it to AZ the MVD was good enough to title it as a 64 for me (I had my reasons).
 
The Grey Lady , TS 58476 LO, was built on 1 Septerber 1959, but was titled as a 1960 model. So, two shed's car was built almost exactly 3 weeks prior to TGL. If we assume no skipped commission numbers, that means 1594 TR's were produced in 15 days or approx. 106 cars per day, a definite possibility.
 
Mine is just the oppisite. My Comm # is 65007 and was titled as a 59. The BMIHT cert says the car was built in January of 1960. I think in this case the cert is incorrect as every other source says it should have been built in late 59.
 
The numbers were assigned when the cars were started; and they did not always finish in strict order. Your car might have been one of the ones that required some sort of corrective action and got delayed ...
 
I think Randall's explanation about Bill's TS65007 is as plausible as anything. As for the information in the Moss Catalog, it's in agreement -- more or less -- with information I have:

TR3A

First car in calendar year 1959: TS41630
First car in calendar year 1960: TS65124
First car in calendar year 1961: TS82030

Note that it says "calendar year" in each case, so the numbers above are literally the first in each new year. This is not necessarily "in synch" with whatever a model year might be. Contrary to a seemingly popular belief, Triumph did seem to note model years somewhat similarly to how American manufacturers often did, with a change somewhere around mid-summer to the "next year's models" at that time. What I suspect has made so many people think otherwise (and for Moss and others to imply in quoting those numbers and dates as they do) is that Triumph didn't have the yearly styling changes of Ford or Chevy, and many changes -- even some significant ones -- were simply introduced when ready. And there's the whole "titled when first sold" thing.

Think about it: why would a dealer, or a manufacturer, want to be selling a "1959" model in late calendar year 1959 when all the dealers around him are selling the brand-new 1960 models? Given manufacturing and shipping lead times, it often happened that the current model year Triumphs didn't really start arriving here in the US until the calendar year. But if there were a few of "last year's cars" still lying about the dealership, and the ones about to arrive didn't look any different, it's understandable for both a seller and buyer to see that retitling to the current model year. That's probably why there are so many 1963 model-year TR3Bs, though production of that model ended before the end of calendar year 1962! (And I laugh to myself when some very early US Spitfire owners refer to their cars as 1962 models because they were made in that calendar year...especially since the US introduction was not until January 1963!)

Again, I don't have tons of charts and graphs and 8 x 10 glossies to back all this up, but "submitted for your approval".... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
Andrew Mace said:
Again, I don't have tons of charts and graphs and 8 x 10 glossies to back all this up, but "submitted for your approval".... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
Click to expand...
Certainly makes excellent sense to me. Only slightly later, of course, the "STC ..." tags came in. Not sure of the details offhand, but when the US started to be worried about model year (since some laws were tied to it), the dealers were required to retag cars being sold as later model years.

My (former) Sports 6 was a good example; completed in 1963 but not sold until 1965. And it had the "STC 65" tag to prove it.
 
TS74011l was titled as a '59 but was probably built in '60...but it had a salvage title so I imagine the owner registered it as a '59 cuz he didn't know better.
 
YankeeTR said:
TS74011l was titled as a '59 but was probably built in '60...but it had a salvage title so I imagine the owner registered it as a '59 cuz he didn't know better.
Click to expand...
Seeing as TS71909L was built 3/28/60 and TS73624L was built 4/15/60, there's little doubt that the '59 year on that salvage title WAS a guess! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
I got the build dates for my two cars many years ago through VTR, when they were offering the "trace" service through the TR Register in England. It was only about $5.00 per car back in the 1980s...unlike the current $50+ for the arguably somewhat more complete -- and fancier -- BMIHT Certificates!
 
YankeeTR said:
TS74011l was titled as a '59 but was probably built in '60...but it had a salvage title so I imagine the owner registered it as a '59 cuz he didn't know better.
Click to expand...
Or maybe he did know better but had reasons for wanting to be a 59. For example, in many places the excise taxes are based on model year.
Also, somewhere in the early 60's, the authorities starting being interested in model year ... re-registering as a 59 may have been simpler.
 
Andrew Mace said:
I got the build dates for my two cars many years ago through VTR, when they were offering the "trace" service through the TR Register in England. It was only about $5.00 per car back in the 1980s...unlike the current $50+ for the arguably somewhat more complete -- and fancier -- BMIHT Certificates!
Click to expand...

TRA does it now for $20.
 
My car TS64566L was built on 21st December 1959, but it had a 1961 Oklahoma title. I guess it was sitting around for a while before it was sold and registered.
 
Funny things happen in Oklahoma, though. I bought a "71" Stag there last year, that turned out to have a 72 body with most of the numbers removed and a 73 engine. The DMV/CHP were not happy with me.
 
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