• Hi Guest! Being a Paying Supporter is NOT a requirement to participate at BCF. However, subscribing will help ensure we can continue to serve the LBC community for years to come. If you enjoy BCF and find our forum a useful resource...Please consider supporting us by **Upgrading**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this banner)
Tips
Tips

TR2/3/3A '56 TR3 St 15000+ should have disc brakes... Right?

wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Contemplating getting back to trs with the purchase of a 3 (will be my third). The one I am looking at is in pieces (lots of them) and is showing as a post 15000 production, but the photos look like drums in front and back...

i have read in other posts that post 13000 should have the discs in the front.

Thoughts?
 

CJD

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
From the judging guide:

The TR2 and early TR3s are fitted with Lockheed drum brakes on all four wheels. The clutch/brake master cylinder
assembly is characterized by cylinders and a common reservoir contained in an integral unit. Service to one system
required service to both. Inspection of the C/B master cylinder assembly:
* Cover plate and unit should not be painted
* Filler cap should be black.
* Brake and clutch lines should not be painted with color (should be galvanized or painted galvanized)
* Boots fitted should be accordion type.
* Slave cylinder different from Girling sytems; is short, fat, and rounded.
______________________________________________________________________________________
Late TR3,Early TR3A TS13046:TS34310 Girling system introduction
TS20310... Restrictor value added, brake line change.
TS22530... LH/RH drive reversal plates dropped.
TS33944... Slave spring change - no details.
TS34311... Brake cyl to 5xway line change - no details.
______________________________________________________________________________________
The introduction of the Girling system with front disk brakes resulted in the complete replacement of the
clutch/brake hydraulics assembly. Distinguishing characteristics:
* Fluid reservoir unit is separate, independent from cylinders; painted black; "Clutch" and "Brake"
decals on sides of reservoirs. A red and blue Girling decal may be on clutch side of reservoir. The
Girling decals may be fitted although they are believed to have been discontinued in 1957.
* C/B cylinder output is straight up to line connector.
* C/B cylinder line adapter is required -- no details.
* C/B push rod connection to pedal assembly made with threaded clevis pin.
* Pedal adjustment bolts are mounted in the front plate of assembly mounting bracket.
* 5-way connector added to frame (passenger side).
* Clutch slave cylinder is longer and thinner than Lockheed cylinder; mounted with bleed port at top;
two styles of support rods can be fitted: one has L turn, the other has a simple angle bend.


If it has drums, it should also have the one-piece master cylinder. The disc brakes switched to the split MC with the can reservoir.
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
Of course, any collection of pieces may be from more than one car. The last one I bought even included some MGA pieces!

(PS, not that any further confirmation is needed, but TS13571L is a disc brake car.)
 
OP
W

wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Here is a shot that was confusing me...

BTW, mgedit, we may have met in the past, I had the Salvador Blue 3 in the OVTC - about 10-12 years ago... Cheers,
Kerry
 

Attachments

  • tr3.jpg
    tr3.jpg
    50.6 KB · Views: 81

TR3TR6

Jedi Warrior
Offline
Kerry, I'm sure you know that this project is not for the faint of heart, my biggest concern would be missing parts. I think I would take a lot of close up pictures to try to figure out what might be missing and what will have to be replaced. Good luck.
 
OP
W

wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
yeah, I would only attempt b/c I have some experience with 3s and I have some bolstered confidence as I am just finishing a frame off fj40 for my kids now... I have asked questions re gauges etc and have assumed motor is seized. I want to go w front discs though and although I think I can do a conversion with the support of this forum, I worry about sourcing parts in a economic manner; cross border stuff is challenging as our dollar has tumbled in recent months...
 

mallard

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
The drums and suspension in the picture do not look like anything from a TR3.
 

CJD

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Just looked closely...

The rear axle has wire wheel adapters, but the front suspensions have the very early TR2 wire wheel hubs...like before they introduced the adapters. The suspension is definitely TR2-3. But the holes drilled in the drums are not factory.

So...the front hubs you have are very rare and hard to find, but they are not original to your TR3. Thus the front drums...not original to the car, which should have discs.

The door in the pic has no outside handle...so likely also a TR2 door. Second door is panelled with non original tuck and roll.

Apron is early small mouth TR3.

You do realize there is no frame?? Kinda important to the build.

The engine is post TS8997E...so TR3 or 3a.

That's all I can make out at a glance...
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
The door in the pic has no outside handle...so likely also a TR2 door.
Or not. The exterior door handles didn't come in until TR3A (except for the ultra-rare GT option).

You do realize there is no frame?? Kinda important to the build.
Sure looks like a frame to me, leaning against the wall. You might take a look at it to see if it has the mounting tabs for the lines to the front calipers. They aren't quite the same as the tabs for the lines to the front drums (and my early disc braked car has both sets of tabs). Sorry I don't have a better photo handy, but you can see part of the disc brake tab in the upper LH corner of this shot
DSCF0002_ZERKS.jpg~original
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
Another thing to check is how many bolts hold the rear brake backing plates to the axle. The brakes and axle housing both changed when the disc brakes were introduced, the later axle has 6 bolts while the earlier axle only has 4. Since it appears to have the wire wheel adapters, most likely it is the later axle.

Parts for the disc brake setup aren't too hard to come by; so I doubt that will be any serious problem. Most likely Marv will have what you need. Having owned both, I'd say the disc brakes are far better than the drums; so that is the way I would go no matter what is original. The front suspension is the same (including the vertical link), so you'll just need the disc brake hubs, calipers, mounting bracket and so on. It's possible to use the early one piece master cylinder with disc brakes but you have to be careful to keep the reservoir topped off. Better to use the later setup (which has a larger reservoir since the calipers "consume" fluid as the pads wear).
 
OP
W

wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
You guys are great, thanks. I will talk to the owner tonight and get some more insights, although I understand he acquired the pile of parts as is, so we will see how much I can pull from him regarding the history. It's a drive for me to get to the car, so for now I will have to mostly rely on pictures and talking to him.
The frame, by the way, is included and is leaning against the wall in the above photo. It has a crimp in the lateral support member (the tube under the passenger seat) and has a bent lateral support bar just behind it as well, but the sill in the previous photo shows no damage (BTW, I don't remember my past 3s having that extra bar there) - I'll need to measure to see how bad it is. Again might point to a collection of parts from a couple of vehicles... Cheers,
Kerry
 

Attachments

  • 32.jpg
    32.jpg
    65.1 KB · Views: 25

CJD

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
This is a TR2 frame, but my TR3A frame also had the flat plate. You will have to do some alignment checking when you repair that frame. The plate is usually twisted slightly...but the outrigger tubed needs to be straight.



 

mallard

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
My eyes must be failing me. I thought the control arms looked correct , but it looked like they were connected to some sort of tube, must have been one of the shocks leaning against them. And John how you could see the front hubs clearly I don't know. Kerry I'm sorry about the misleading information.
 
OP
W

wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
No worries Keith - its all good. The seller took some 60 pictures for me last night so I am now going through. The rear axle is correct, with 6 bolts, the front brakes are not, but he knows someone who will trade for discs; I didn't get the number on the motor, but understand it is not the correct one (I know the numbers don't match exactly, so may eventually find out how far out it is - it is also assumed to be seized). Tub has good panels, but a fair bit of internal rust (joints, floors) and the frame is exactly 35" in front of that crimp suggesting at least one of the frame measures near there is exactly to spec. Gages are all present, temp is not original, rad looks perfect for some reason, other major components are there as well. Now it just comes down to whether or not this is too big of a project for me and price - I expect to be fairly distracted at work today...
 

CJD

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
You can't see the front hubs, but there are no bolts holding the wire adapter on, so they have to be hubs with the built in adapter... Or "integral" hubs. They are worth much more than an entire set of discs...so you should get more than a 1:1 on the trade!
 
OP
W

wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Bought it! In for $3000 CAD and it includes an overdrive transmission. I wont actually see it for probably a month, the owner has been gracious enough to continue to store it while I try and clear my kids fj40 from the garage. I am pretty stoked.

Re the front hubs - there is almost no chance I will use these, I am planning on driving this car a fair bit in the end and will not be using (or maintaining) spokes - I would be very pleased to hear your opinions on what their value is...

Cheers,
Kerry
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
Re the front hubs - there is almost no chance I will use these, I am planning on driving this car a fair bit in the end and will not be using (or maintaining) spokes - I would be very pleased to hear your opinions on what their value is...
Depends a lot on condition, IMO. If the splines are badly worn, they won't be worth much. There probably is a way to restore worn splines, but it's not likely to be cost effective.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
1 TR3 Fender spats sold on EBay. Triumph 0
J TR2/3/3A What size speedi-sleeve needed for pinion seal on a TR3? Triumph 6
T For Sale Free - Body Jig for TR3/TR3A Triumph Classifieds 0
J TR2/3/3A TR3 engine cylinder top clearance Triumph 22
BillyB62 TR2/3/3A Looking for the Owner of a TR3 Triumph 5
Pool Dad 1960 TR3 engine serial number Triumph 14
T TR2/3/3A TR3 coolant hoses Triumph 2
T TR2/3/3A Has anyone designed a hand brake warning light for the TR3? Triumph 3
J TR2/3/3A "TR3" painted on the engine block Triumph 13
J TR2/3/3A TR3 Rear seat Triumph 11
D Socket for TR3 Gear box drain plug Restoration & Tools 6
J TR2/3/3A TR3 gas tank mystery Triumph 5
T Wanted Wanted - 1956 TR3 Crankshaft Triumph Classifieds 0
jfarris TR2/3/3A Venture into the "dark side," Miata seats in a TR3 Triumph 2
T TR2/3/3A Question on old radio from my TR3 Triumph 9
T TR2/3/3A tr3 front carpet replacement Triumph 5
T TR2/3/3A Should there be a body ground strap to battery on TR3 Triumph 7
G For Sale: Triumph TR2, TR3, TR3A Sheet Metal Body Parts – Front Apron (valence) with grille, Bonnet (hood), Doors, Boot (trunk) Deck Lid Triumph Classifieds 3
G For Sale: Triumph TR2, TR3, TR3A, TR3B Factory Steel Hardtop, New Rear window, Partial Bracket Set Triumph Classifieds 2
A TR2/3/3A Early TR3 starter (bomb style) bushings sizes Triumph 5
T For Sale TR2 - TR3 Gas Cap for sale Triumph Classifieds 1
B TR2/3/3A TR3 Hard Top Triumph 2
D TR2/3/3A TR3 throttle linkage bell crank. Triumph 13
J For Sale 1965 TR4 + TR3 Parts - Rebuilt trans, floors, gauges, misc. Triumph Classifieds 9
M TR2/3/3A Defective master cylinders Tr3 Triumph 13
BarryO TR2/3/3A setting up a TR3 clutch slave Triumph 5
M master cylinder brake/clutch Tr3 Triumph Classifieds 6
C TR2/3/3A TR3 Gearbox Problem Triumph 10
Tr3aguy TR2/3/3A Started a Car revival channel for the TR3 Triumph 12
J TR2/3/3A Any advice for new floor install on my TR3? Triumph 9
D 1957 Triumph Tr3 Triumph Classifieds 2
P TR2/3/3A tr3 side curtains Triumph 4
banjojambo Triumph tr3 vertical link wobble Triumph 2
S TR2/3/3A purchased a box of tr3 parts this weekend, Triumph 1
C TR2/3/3A TR3 close by Triumph 2
D TR2/3/3A Tr3 horn testing and wiring Triumph 8
J For Sale Triumph TR2 TR3 TR3A New Moss Motors Black Karvel Style Carpet Kit Triumph Classifieds 0
B TR2/3/3A TR3 sag to the left [port sag] Triumph 10
K For Sale Triumph TR3 Bullnose Starter Triumph Classifieds 0
K For Sale TR3 rear rebound brackets Triumph Classifieds 0
K For Sale TR3 Radiator Guard Triumph Classifieds 0
S TR2/3/3A TR3 has me stumped, it runs then dies over and over and the exhaust system was pulled Triumph 9
D TR2/3/3A TR3 Headlamp Rings Triumph 8
O For Sale New Member from NJ 1960 TR3 Triumph Classifieds 1
K For Sale Rare TR3 Folding Lug Wrench Triumph Classifieds 1
A TR2/3/3A TR3-A replacement top Triumph 7
ckeithjordan TR2/3/3A TR3 Bulkhead Carpet Triumph 9
boxofparts TR2/3/3A TR3 Spotted Petoskey Michigan Red and Wedgewood or Powder Blue Triumph 1
L TR2/3/3A Any trick to removing TR3 doors? Triumph 12
K TR2/3/3A Non Adjustable TR3 Steering Wheel Triumph 7

Similar threads

Top