This is becoming tirsome. You give a max of .027 and a min of .015 for different engines. What's right in the middle?!?!?!? About .020. You assume that most inexperianced folks know HOW to correctly use a feeler gauge and I've seen far too many people set things too tight, too loose or twist or cock the blade and get a false feel. .020 is a safe zone that you won't hurt anything if they get it wrong.
I DO believe in design criteria, if CORRECTLY DESIGNED to begin with and accounting for wear. I think you keep missing that.
I'm VERY glad to see someone messing about on a NUCLEAR sub doing things to spec. Don't know nothing about splitting atoms, never came as standard equipment on anything I've worked on, but if George Jetson shows up for service, I'll contact you.
You state a VW gap of .016 and ask "what disruption in longevity and performance will be encountered?" Answer, NONE !!!!
I still have my mother's '68 VW bug that she bought new. It has ALWAYS been set at .020 since new and at 165K is STILL set at .020. 100% STOCK engine that has NEVER had the case split, still has original pistons, cylinders heads etc... Dad did valve guides and exhast valves in it years ago ( cause you couldn't set them at .006 and it still run right anymore) and swears it still has the original rings in it. I want to say he changed the rings, but it was a long time ago. VW guide wear has nothing to do with point gap, as they all had this problem. Same car my Grandmother drove through the projects in New Orleans wihtout ever having any point failure. (Coil lead did fall off once, but not due to point gap and not in the projects.)
She'll still fire right up even though I NEVER drive it and only crank her once every few months. Doesn't smoke or knock and purrs like a kitten. Now it does need to be align bored, but NOT because of point gap. I'll never understand why they used Magneseium alloy for case material...cost or not. A counterbalanced crack wouldn't have been a bad idea either.
I come from a VW family and we have serviced THOUSANDS of these things and we haven't ever seen one this original run this good with this many miles on it.....set at .020 or not.
So, is it running this good because of .020, NO.
Did .020 point gap hurt it? ABSOLUTLY NOT !!!!!
You wanna set stuff tigher, fine. As gap decreases (which it ALWAYS will) my .020 will be getting closer to your .016 all the time while your .016 is getting closer to a closed circuit. Now which one do you think will burn and over heat first ?1?!?!?!?!?
Is it "proper", no, will it go longer w/o service, yes. Air cooled VW's don't live that long, especially here in 90+ weather and the way my grandmother drove it. She would pass us on the interstae on regular basis anywhere b/w 85-90 MPH. She has a weak bladder and was always eager to get home, which was 40 miles away.
We lost all of Dad's shop manuals in Katrina. Those are the same maunals that I got tired of looking up point gap in as a kid only to say right around .020 ( Dad said set 'em all to .020 anyway). I had all of them memorized cover to cover by the age of 6. No, I'm not talking about the thin paperback crap. He had an extensive library and I devoured all of it.
(Especially SBC stuff, I could quote ALL internal engine specs on all models reguardless of HP rating or year. I could even tell you what page it was on and what paragraph and sentence.)
(don't remeber hardly any of it now, what a shame.)
Now on to shaft play, on OHC they will move back and forth and some push rod motors too. Yes, you are correct about lobe design...which isn't any help when a rocker is moving fore and aft instead of up and down at the appropriate time due to excessive play. So.....if you set it tighter...it moves forward sooner........which means it'll now open closer to when it's supposed to if it didn't have the play to begin with. Were're saying the same thing, but you're hung up on numbers and not proper opperation due to wear.
Tried zero lash on solid lift before to try to get more lift and duraton but it didn't work for the reasons you mentioned earlier. Car ran better loose and no harm in pushing the envelope w/ no permanent changes. All in the name of science of course.
I would sincerly hope you rebuilt your engine to proper spec.
(Smokey would have put those pistons in back'ards though and gained a little leverage on the rod due to the offset of the pin. It worked good enogh that NASCAR outlawed the practice. Mighta slapped a little but she woulda run a bit harder, maybe not to 300K but who knows.)
Once again, new stuff = perfect world...which I have stated SEVERAL times before, I'm not talking perfect world but the old worn out junk these things become.
A brand new points ignition is primative and marginal at best. Why else do you think they were replaced?!?!?!?! If someone chooses to be a glutton for punishment and still run points even though a MUCH better alternative is avalible, well than that's their buisness. Lets not EVEN get into the bennifits of fuel injection. Ever wonder why cars will go 300K on a regular basis now......even with idiots maintaining them ????
Why pass up on even more improvement in longevity, economy and performance THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOOL WITH ?!?!?!?! Maybe some folks like to work on stuff, I don't. I've done it all my life and I'm sick of it. I want to drive my car, not work on it.
Why worry about perfection in a system that primitive and marginal to begin with?!?!?!?
That doesn't make any sense!!!
If it's that big of a deal, go to something better.
You think your stuff runs good at "X" factory setting???
Go MS&S and REALLY get your tune on......while you drive !!!!!
At the risk of sounding rude and ugly, I'll say this simply because I'm tired of all this crap: (it is not meant to be rude or ugly, just to the point)
Don't like the way I do things? Fine, I don't care.
Do I care how you do things? No I don't.
Would I like your input in the future?
Absolutly, as I'm sure you know somehting that I don't.
(one of the first things Dad taught me).
Will either of us ever have to worry about any of this? No.
You wanna tear your stuff down and get 300K out of it, great.
I'll over adjust my junk and keep it running far longer than it has a right to.
No harm, no foul. You got your way and I've got mine.
Can we still be friendly after all of this exhastive crap?
I sincerly hope so!!!
I've never ever ever even heard of ANYTHING being set as tight as .011.
( I'm assuming you're talking about the "Buick" TR8 engine when you say Triumph 8 cyl as it's the only one I'm aware of.) I don't doubt you have material stating that, or that it's not "correct"; just not to my knowledge and find it suprising for a Delco based system if it still had it in the TR. (I don't care wether it did or not.)
Might I check in the future if encountering something unfamilar? I always do.
(although with points I will admit I usually don't but I ALWAYS check valve clearnace and torque specs except for OHC m/c's (VC))
I've never had to deal with one and probably won't ever have to, so it isn't important to me what it's "supposed" to be. (no more that proper nuclear sub specs are to me either.)
Like I orignally stated in the begining: " I don't know what these engines are set to, but I set everything to .020."
It's my junk and I'll do as I please with it. First thing I do with V8 points is throw it out and go electronic.
You'll no more convice me to change my ways then I'll convince you to run electroic ignition and fuel injection.
....and there's nothing wrong with that.
SIDENOTE: You'll NEVER EVER EVER EVER hear me say ANYTYHING about fudging torque specs unless it's never to do it. I think you might be reading a bit too much into my "flexible engineering" methods.
In closing I would like to say, I'm not suprised to see a Navy guy stick to the book ( I would expect one to, especially given the nature of your service (thanks for that too)).
I only have two more words to say about a guy on a nuclear sub that does things by the book.
"THANK GOD !!!"
I'm sure your shipmates felt the same way.
It's almost 3 a.m here and I've already wasted too much time on this and don't wish to do so any further. It isn't helping the original poster with his problem...which is why we're both here anyway, right? He now knows it's .016 and that I set to .020. It's his call.
The world won't end either way...at least not until 2012 when the Myans replace their rock calender with an electronic one.
I can't beleive .004 have cost me this much. I'm now going to bed.
Goodnight gentlemen! (Now 3:28, GOOD GRIEF !!!)
Oh, I almost forgot.
Mallory duel point?
I set those at exactly the same as all the other "performance" junk that's been outdated for 30 years......opening bid of $.99 with no reserve.
I did like reading about those as a kid though. 'specally them pictures of them guys with greasy hair.
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