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win

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Hi, This is my first post.
I recently finished a 1966 AH Sprite MKIII for my son,he took it on a nice road trip to Pittsburg from Mich. He loved it but he said it would be nice to have another gear
It has a 1098 w/smooth case 4 speed.
My question is what 5 Speeds do they use for a conversion, I read about a Datsun 210 series 60 was one.
are there others that can be used? I assume there is some sort of adapter plate and drive shaft mods that have to be done.
Any input would be great for a newbee.
 
The datsun conversion is the easiest and most affordable when you find the correct transmission. BillM can fill in the details for you.

There is also a type9 ford transmission that is commonly used, but is very rare in the US. It requires some body modification and a bit more expensive when bought as a kit.
 
Thats cause you guys used em all up. lol
 
Honestly, putting a 3.7 final drive (from a later 1500 Midget) will give similar results in terms of reducing engine speed at cruising.
And it's far easier and cheaper to do.

A 1098 Sprite can handle the 3.7 gear no problem.
 
If you decide to go that Datsun gearbox route, I have a conversion kit for the 1098 to go with the datsun gearbox, it's in new condition, it cam with one of my buddy's race car, and he doesn't use the Datsun gearbox, I includes a Datsun 210 aluminum flywheel that was modified to use on the 1098 engine, and very nice aluminum conversion backplate, very nice machine work, and we'll never have any use for it, so shout at me if you are interested, my buddy doesn't want much for it.
 
:iagree:

Ah, the combo I'm running. ... 1098/mild cam/dastun 5 speed/ 3.9 rear end. It drops the rpms at 60 mph from 4k to 3k. The engine pulls nicely in the high gears from 1800 rpm, and will easily cruise at 70mph+ all day.
 
Great info!

Thanks for the reply, I'm keeping my eyes open for a 210 and your conversion would be great I'll keep in touch. if your buddy could shoot me a price that would be great @ woodland331@gmail.com
 
Re: Great info!

I'm considering changing my trans to a 5-speed, possibly this summer or as a next winter project. I have a 62 MKII with a 1275 that was installed by PO. How did it work out for you Win from Mich? Any suggestions, pointers, ideas on where to find a 210? I just saw a 210 trans without a conversion on e-bay go for ~ $570, I didn't stay to the end, it had an hour left, so I was not sure of the final going price. Is that the typical going price? Several folks suggest contacting "BillM". BillM if you are reading this, would you please contact me.

Anybody have a 5-speed in good condition they are wanting to part with? (How was that Jack? You said the best thing to do was go on-line and ask.) I'll let you know ow that worked.

Thanks for any input, suggestions, or leeds that you may be able to provide.

Magyar
 
Re: Great info!

Here's a starting place.
Of course BillM is also a member here but this is his website:

https://www.billgariamotors.com

Bill rebuilt my dogleg 5 speed, that's the 60L out of the '79 Datsun 210.
We installed it in the car about 2 weeks ago, and it's fantastic.
Of course mine has the Datsun A15 motor with the dual HIF4 carbs, so I have no trouble pulling uphill in 5th gear. This also made fitting the 5 speed a no brainer - as I didn't have to adapt anything.

Be careful what you are looking at, there's the 60A which is the most 'common' of the 210 transmissions you will see.

The going price a couple years ago was $800 - $1100.
That's dropped quite a bit but is headed back up, as anything rare and in demand will increase in value.
 
win said:
Hi, This is my first post.
I recently finished a 1966 AH Sprite MKIII for my son,he took it on a nice road trip to Pittsburg from Mich. He loved it but he said it would be nice to have another gear
It has a 1098 w/smooth case 4 speed.
My question is what 5 Speeds do they use for a conversion, I read about a Datsun 210 series 60 was one.
are there others that can be used? I assume there is some sort of adapter plate and drive shaft mods that have to be done.
Any input would be great for a newbee.
Click to expand...

win,

Here is another option for you. Complete turnkey installation, I have personally installed more than a dozen of these you will find it to be the best manufacturing quality available. Improvements exist in this kit that will streamline and simplify your installation you will not find elsewhere. I'll give you more details if you are interested. I may be able to find you a transmission as well.

https://gerardsgarage.com/Garage/Tech/5speedKit.htm

You will find my web site to be chocked full of other good information.

Gerard
 
Hap Waldrop said:
If you decide to go that Datsun gearbox route, I have a conversion kit for the 1098 to go with the datsun gearbox, it's in new condition, it cam with one of my buddy's race car, and he doesn't use the Datsun gearbox, I includes a Datsun 210 aluminum flywheel that was modified to use on the 1098 engine, and very nice aluminum conversion backplate, very nice machine work, and we'll never have any use for it, so shout at me if you are interested, my buddy doesn't want much for it.
Click to expand...

I still got all this stuff too, it's been bolted on a engine but never used, we'll never use it for anything, and it's pretty specific to the 1098 engine and the 210 tranny, which somewhat makes it a oddity, except to a 1098 guy.
 
https://www.picknpull.com/default.aspx
If there's a pick'n pull in your neigbhourhood, check the above once a month. It's not fool proof, but at least gives you an idea of when to scurry on down - which you'll have to do to find out if it's a 4 speed, 5 speed, or slush box.
Doug
 
I just followed my own advice and checked the pick'n pull and got ten hits. Now, if you know someone who works cheap and lives in each of these locations....
Better yet - if you live close to one of the hits, and if they're getting up in the near $ 600 range, it might pay you to grab one for yourself or resale, or just to keep it from going to the crusher. (I've got two, and two BE projects, and can't get the dang 5 speed input shaft to slide into the bushing of project 1! back out to the garage tonight, to try a couple of thots. It goes in about half way and appears to stop; removed the pressure plate & clutch to get rid of those variables; the alignment tool slides in. Dang!)
Doug
 
Are you doing the Rivergate conversion? Did you cut back the input guide sufficiently? Is the clutch yoke holding you out (when against the pressure plate)?
BillM
 
Gerard said:
win said:
Hi, This is my first post.
I recently finished a 1966 AH Sprite MKIII for my son,he took it on a nice road trip to Pittsburg from Mich. He loved it but he said it would be nice to have another gear
It has a 1098 w/smooth case 4 speed.
My question is what 5 Speeds do they use for a conversion, I read about a Datsun 210 series 60 was one.
are there others that can be used? I assume there is some sort of adapter plate and drive shaft mods that have to be done.
Any input would be great for a newbee.
Click to expand...

win,

Here is another option for you. Complete turnkey installation, I have personally installed more than a dozen of these you will find it to be the best manufacturing quality available. Improvements exist in this kit that will streamline and simplify your installation you will not find elsewhere. I'll give you more details if you are interested. I may be able to find you a transmission as well.

https://gerardsgarage.com/Garage/Tech/5speedKit.htm

You will find my web site to be chocked full of other good information.

Gerard
Click to expand...

Gerad, I have question or you. On your rear adapter plate and rear seal kit (which look alot like the normal A series rear seal alot of folks sell) do you retain the original upper bolt on "eyebrow" piece that is part of the orignal reverse scroll design. Here's the reason I ask, the normal A series rear seal kits are horrible failures, because they elminate te upper scroll eyebrow, and what happens when this pieces are elminated is the srcoll no longer works properly and flooded the rear section of the seal and then cause the seal to fail. We tried a bunch of these over the years on race cars and street cars, they failed horribly, and my experiecne with them is pretty consistent with most folks that work and own these cars. Rivergate intial design with rear seal, sort of did the same thing as the rear seal kit, and it too, did not work very well, but later Will redisigned his backing plate to leave the original scroll eye brow in place and then have a bolt seal holder that was a back up system to the original scroll, this works wonderfully. Bottom line due to the A series cranksahft design, the scroll and all it working bits needs to be retained, if scroll is rendered unworkable, then seal failure is almost guranteed.
 
Hap,

First and foremost, I have always told people that if they are building a new engine and the machinist has done their job right; the engine has been assembled and vented correctly; then engine should not leak. Every engine I've built in the last 10 years has not leaked oil from the scroll seal and none incorporated the lip seal. I'm sure there are others who know how to do this too.

I provide the seal kits as an option, They are not required for the 5 speed conversion. I have provided them recently because people have asked for them. However, that being said, there's no reason I can see why these wouldn't help, but I'll investigate further and report back. Certainly. the the success of the lip seal has some dependence on the scroll seal working and everything else I mentioned that precedes it being done correctly.

Further, if there is a flaw in the design (I don't make them), I work with a machinist skilled enough to modify them so that they will function correctly. Anyway, I'll look into it. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention.

Gerard
 
Hap,

Are the after market seals really THAT bad I haven't heard much about them except for if you leave out the shim/spacer when fitting the flywheel it'll tear the seal, I recently bought a moss kit but now I fell uncomfortable fitting it, darn you! You mentioned a re-design leaving the scroll eyebrow, you don't happen to have some more Intel on that?
 
Aggudabbu said:
Hap,

Are the after market seals really THAT bad I haven't heard much about them except for if you leave out the shim/spacer when fitting the flywheel it'll tear the seal, I recently bought a moss kit but now I fell uncomfortable fitting it, darn you! You mentioned a re-design leaving the scroll eyebrow, you don't happen to have some more Intel on that?
Click to expand...

The ones for the normal A series application, yes they are junk, and I go on the record saying that. The theory of them is not even well thought out as I mentioned above. Do yourself a favor, return it and spend the money on something else. The only rear seal I ever seen on the back of A series engine that even remotely make sense is the one Will Perry at Rivergate uses on his Datsun 5 speed kit, as it is simply a back up system to the reverse scroll. Who ever designed the A series rear seal kit was brain dead as to the workings of the this motor, and thats putting it nicely :smile: Bottom line the seals work great until enough oil has flooded the area behind the seal, and at that point the seal fail and it leak worse than any A series engine you ever seen without a rear seal, this is not just my opinion, hundreds fo folks have suffered from this kit.


Gerard, please tell us all how you achieve these leakless A series engines, I'm sure we'd all like to know, I know I would. :bow:
 
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