5 speed or not ?

[billspohn]

Bill, a well-stated post as usual and I agree with every word. Well, except for the MGA-bodied Miata of course. Don't even think about it! :lol:

What, you don't like the idea of some pretty carbon fiber MGA panels that would bolt onto a Miata and pretty it up some?

 

[Deleted member 3577]

Oh-Yea...Forgot to mention...

You can't justify making that Vrooom noise with a 'super-syncro' box when downshifting.

That in itself would, for me, eliminate any consideration.

Go for that updated steel syncro ring if the MGB doesn't already have it.
They sneck a bit better.

And I couldn't find a machine shop that could finish the inside of the lay gear so that the 4th bearing could be installed.
They said it was too hard.
I think lay gears have some variance in them in how far they finish the inside.

Also...Don't REM finish the lay shaft.
(If you're into that kind of crazy stuff)

 

[bob67bgt]

Steve, Thats EXCELLENT information with informative details. I guess i really did get something out of this post afterall! If i had seen these numbers with the details i probably would not have sold off 2- 3 syncro O/D's last year.(ebay around $550 each). I would have had them built and put on the shelf. Quantum actually purchased one of them and the other went across the pond with a shipping bill in the $500 to $600 range. They are not my cup of tea but i could have made 2 people very happy and at a great price. I also hope this helps Quantum get more business in this uncertain time for alot of small businesses. Now, i'm going back under the dash. For those interested the phone number to Quantum is 203-459-9612. Overdrive or 4 or 5 speed just keep driving the cars. Bob

 

[Steve_S]

Here's another one. $500 purchase, $800-1000 to rebuild. Bolt it in and go!

https://detroit.craigslist.org/pts/1057850349.html

 

[billspohn]

Go for that updated steel syncro ring if the MGB doesn't already have it.
They sneck a bit better.

And I couldn't find a machine shop that could finish the inside of the lay gear so that the 4th bearing could be installed.
They said it was too hard.

1 - you can only fit the steel synchro ring if you also change the second gear cluster.

2 - you need to buy the late 3 synch laygear and shaft that runs 4 caged roller bearings. I don't think trying to machine out the old 3 bearing style to add another set of rollers will work. Apparently neither does your machine shop.

2a - if you fit the 1967/8 style laygear you need to ream the case for the slightly larger shaft size.

I always run 4 bearing laygears in my race cars.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Bob, just tell Steve he needs a gear reduction starter instead of one of these POS Lucas units, that'll get him going everytime

I've long came to the conclusion you're not going to be able to talk some guys into the pluses of a 5 speed, they love their old ODs way too much, that cool, we know better though don't we Bob

 

[Steve_S]

Hap, maybe you don't realize that I have an MG with a gear reduction starter? Yes I prefer period starters, mainly for the sound and look, but they are not always up to the task of starting an uprated engine. :wink:

I'm also the first to admit that a 5-speed will improve the driveability of any old M.G. The problem is that people who run them can't understand why anyone would prefer older gearbox technology over newer, and those who want a vintage feel can't convince some others that yes, the feel of the gearbox contributes to that vintage feel. I like my old cars to feel, sound and work like old cars, it's as simple as that! If I wanted performance and modern efficiency, I'd start with something other than an MGB.

 

[Mark Jones]

How does a 5 speed improve drivability? You shift 4 times from a stop and your cruising in 5th gear? With an OD gearbox you shift 3 times and click once and your cruising in "5th" gear? The end result is the same. Both a 5 spd and a 4 spd w/OD improve drivability compared to a 4 spd.

When it comes right down to it, its really just a preference; both do the same thing.

As an aside, Laycock electric overdrive units have been used up until at least 1989 by Volvo, so its not like it is an antiquated technology.

 

[Steve_S]

Believe me, I agree! Personally I feel that the OD offers advantages that outweigh those offered by a 5-speed. But I will concede that while the 5-speed is a more expensive project and changes the feel of the car, it is a lighter and smoother functioning gearbox. Everything else aside, I still couldn't bring myself to give up flipping a switch on the dash and buzzing off into the sunset. :wink:

 

[Hap Waldrop]

I will concede that while the 5-speed is a more expensive project and changes the feel of the car, it is a lighter and smoother functioning gearbox.

See there ya go, Steve said it, so it must be true (just kidding you know you're my bud Steve) And yeah I know you put a gear reduction starter on your race car, because you wanted to know it would start when needed

This is one of those debates, OD vs 5 speed, that could go forever, it will never be settled. Pick your posion, and there ya go.

For me, it always been about making it better, sure I draw my lines in the sand as do most of us do, I just think my line little further out there. If I see a component I can improve upon without turning the car into something else all together, then I opt for it. On our race cars there's not much MG or UK left on it, and what is is highly modified, when we get done, but we made it better, and for me thats the name of the game for me. I still have my liitle vintage things I hold onto, for example, I love my Banjo steering wheel, not exactly the best spritied driving steering wheel, but I like it, and think it's cool.

 

[Jayrz]

Wow guys!

Seven pages of arguement later I thought I'd chime back in.

My engine is in need of work and with a 2-3k bill presenting itself it made sense to install a good used piece. I found a 3 synchro box at Sports Car Craftsman here in Arvada that someone had rebuilt w/ new layshaft and 4 bearing conversion, synchros etc. so,,,, for $450 it was a good way out of my gearbox problems.

Do I still want a 5 speed? Oh heck yes but it'll have to be the T9 set-up that Hap sells cause I don't want to cut up my shifter cover on my pull handle car.
May have to wait till next year but with MG2009 looming closer the motor needs to get done and back in the car ASAP.

Thanks for all the input guys and hoping to meet some of you up in Breckenridge at MG2009. I'll be the guy with the Tartan Red 64MGB, Black 61Midget (Toyota 4age powered), and Green 69 Lotus Elan all parked together. For some reason I had no problem finding volunteers to drive the other cars up for me.

Jay

 

[Steve_S]

[And yeah I know you put a gear reduction starter on your race car, because you wanted to know it would start when needed

Ouch! That hurt! LOL! It's only there because the original starter would have taken one look at the engine, removed its own bolts and run back to England.

I still have my liitle vintage things I hold onto, for example, I love my Banjo steering wheel, not exactly the best spritied driving steering wheel, but I like it, and think it's cool.

I like the looks of them, but the only banjo wheel I have is on the MGA. I prefer period aluminum wheels on the Bs and C. I guess I'm more into the feel of the car and you're just into looks.

Seven pages of arguement later I thought I'd chime back in.

The first thing I do when I sign up on a forum is increase the number of posts per page. I'm only on page three of this thread. Jay, just FYI you can buy an OD conversion kit for a LOT less than an entire 5-speed transmission (a few hundred dollars purchase price). Since your gearbox is basically new, it would require only labor to install the OD.