5 speed or not ?

[Jarhead]

I have a later model '77 with a 4 speed that I am going to change out to a 5 speed. I see that Moss has a kit with shaft and all. Any users?

 

[rick_ingram]

I have a later model '77 with a 4 speed that I am going to change out to a 5 speed. I see that Moss has a kit with shaft and all. Any users?

A friend of mine just did this conversion with the Moss T9 on his '72 MGB. He likes it.

 

[Jarhead]

That's the second one that I have heard of and both like it. I know at 70 mph that 5th gear would certainly be welcomed.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

I have a later model '77 with a 4 speed that I am going to change out to a 5 speed. I see that Moss has a kit with shaft and all. Any users?

We do the same kit as Moss, but everything is produced here in the states. This isn't anyhting new, by far the most proven over time 5 speed conversion for a MGB, the T9 conversion have been around for awhile, Moss just starting selling it lately. I had a friend in my car club he was doing and selling these conversions 15 years ago. We lost him to cancer a few yesrs ago, he wanted me to look at buying his business, but at the time, Acme Speed Shop was too new to take on something else, so a guy in Florida bought his company. I recntly re-thought this, and fiquired now was the time to persue this, and I have to say I've been selling pretty good. I can't wait to get one in my car, but since my car is running like a top, and ready for he season, it will be probably be a next winter project for me personally.

 

[Bruce74B]

That's the second one that I have heard of and both like it. I know at 70 mph that 5th gear would certainly be welcomed.

I agree...but not as cool as hitting the stalk switch, feeling the OD bump in and watch the tach drop :thumbsup:

Sorry, had to say it!

 

[boxofparts]

My friend has a Ford T9 that is free for my taking. I was thinking about cutting the bell housing off one of my old 4 speeds and welding up an adapter plate. Presto .. 5 speed. There is a Triumph guy out that did this..for TR3-4-5-6s

This project of couse would be after I paint a few rooms in the house, lay some cultured stone on the front porch, insulate the garage and go on the next 2 summer vacations.

So.. I better grab that tranny so I can hurry up and wait.

I also have a TR3 that is wanting some paint and re-assembly..I fear if the wife even see me work on it I might be ground up and added to the porch.

The only joy is my kids like the MGB and fight over who can go for a ride. 4 speed work fine around town.. 5 speed is nice but I agree with other posters that the original overdrive is way cooler.

Nothing like going down the freeway at 4000 rpm wondering if she might blow!

 

[rick_ingram]

Nothing like going down the freeway at 4000 rpm wondering if she might blow!

The thing is....it will NOT!

These engines were built for higher rpm...and are happy at 4k.

We've just become used to lowere revving engines from Japan, etc over the years.

Rev away....just watch the tach.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

My friend has a Ford T9 that is free for my taking. I was thinking about cutting the bell housing off one of my old 4 speeds

Been there, done that, it quite the machining job, it was a midget rib cage fornt section made to fit a T5, I didn't need to attach a T5 tranny to a midget for the street but for a Dyno adpater for a Land and Sea dyno project which I never finished. There a lot to it, you have to make a plate that bolts to the fornt that you can use indicate a center, then make the section that will be welded to the back of the bellhousing section of the left over MGB tranny case, then machine it for everthing you need to work with the tranny you are using, plus fork arms, etc. It would be cheaper and easier for you to just buy the bellhousing and that already made for these, they use the MGB slave cylinder, and look identical to the front of the MGB tranny anyway. We'll sell the kit minus the tranny. One thing to keep in mind the only thing a T9 ever came on in the USA is a Merkur, and they are two different input shaft lengths, so it 50/50 at best if the one you can get is the right one.

Here's a photo of the dyno adpater we made, it as quite a chore to make. If you're a tool and die machinist, then making a adapter will be easy, if you're not, you'll be on a first name basis with one by the time you're done, bottom line this is a part already made, thus cheaper to just buy for most.

 

[Jarhead]

With these 5 speed conversions what kind of situation are you up against for the speedometer and back-up light connections? Does the tranny Moss offers deal with this as well? Anybody Know? :confuse:

 

[losmorob]

Without modifying such an early car go fo a 5 speed or an o/d box. I've owned MGB's all my life and just recently installed an overdrive into my GT. I'll never go back.

My change jar is now my Sprite/Hap's 5 speed fund. Don't hold your breath Hap, but I'm trying!

 

[Deleted member 3577]

Don't know much about 64 MGBs but...

Would a lower ratio rear end help top end w/o raising 1st too much?

 

[testaj]

I think anyone who drives a 5 speed MGB on the interstate immediately falls in love with 5 speed, it opens up one more way to use our cars, in my opinion a 5 speed is a more viable choice than a factory OD, the 5 speed is just better. When I looked into getting in the 5 speed business I thought about alot of things, most of them being not having to cut on the car, or modify alot, the T9 kit is the way I went, it's bell housing is a exact copy of the front of a MGB transmission case so it looks stock from under the hood, it lets you use all MGB clutch components including a MGB clutch disc, you don't have to modify a flywheel, and that opens up the option of having a aluminum flywheel (which I'm doing on my car), it also let you use your normal clutch hydraulics, and no modificatiton to the chassis whatsoever. As far as lowering the resale value on a Mark 1 car, I guess maybe if you doing concourse shows, but tell me if you buy one of these cars to drive, and you're looking at two equal cars for the same money sitting side by side, which one would you choose, the 4 speed or the 5 speed?

The biggest problem I see with the 5 speed conversion is the very steep price tag. Spending 1/3 or even 1/2 of the cars value on a transmission so you can get a little more top end on the highway from a car you use as a weekend toy seems to make very little economic or any other kind of sense. I had considered it until I saw the 2,700 price tag. Thanks anyway but I will keep my highway driving to a minimum.

 

[Mark Jones]

What makes the 5 speed better than 4 speed with OD? They accomplish the same thing and the OD is significantly cheaper. Seems like a no-brainer to go with the 4 speed with OD (actually a 6 speed) and it makes it feel just like a modern car zipping down the highway.

 

[Steve_S]

 

[bob67bgt]

Search the other (off brand-MG experience) web site about overdrives. You will see lots of questions about repairing them. I have not seen to much in the way of problems with the 5 speeds. I have posted over there about how i modified the slave system on the Rivergate setup i got in the rubber bumper BGT i purchased this January. Thats about all you will see about problems with the Datsun or T9 kits. Its a preference thing and i like both the 5 speed and the O/Ds. I do think that if you want the overdrive gear to be there every time- guaranted-make it a 5 speed. For what its worth...Bob

 

[Mark Jones]

It's a preference thing that's it.

Sure they're asking qusetion about how to fix them because there are lots of them out there and so there is bound to be repairs needed. Most of the problems are electrical related, not with the OD unit itself.

How about in 30+ years, will people be wondering how to fix their Nissan or T9 tranny? Probably.

 

[Steve_S]

Properly rebuilt, an overdrive gearbox will last a very long time. Mark is absolutely correct that most problems with overdrive transmissions have nothing to do with the transmission itself. Yes, they are older technology and yes there are more parts to go bad, but MGB gearboxes have never been known as a weak link in the car. If you prefer the modern feel of the 5-speed then the issue is moot of course.

 

[bob67bgt]

I normally do not get involved in these topics.BUT... Moss lists a rebuilt early O/D box for $3299. And a late O/d for $2835. Quantum will sell a rebuilt late O/d outright for $1995. The original question was for a early car. For a early car the unavailable vacuum switch is not available anywhere! Now what are you going to do? The T9 is not overly expensive compared to the $3300 plus price Moss gets. Now as far as mostly electrical i would say ok there are electrical issues. Also the late cars have a problem with the thrust washers in the o/d and then there is the free wheeling issue sometimes cause by dirt or trash in the box or other internal issues. The T9 kit comes with a rebuilt trans so to compare properly you would need to compare prices to a rebuilt overdrive. Right now i have a 74.5 BGT with a rivergate kit,72 MGB with a full syncro O/D, 67 BGT with one of my borg warner T5 boxes, 63 MGB with a 3 main and borg warner T5, and a 67 with a standard 3 syncro 4 speed attached. The next one to be completed is a primrose yellow 69 with a full syncro O/d. I am still waiting to drive a T9 equiped MGB so i can properly judge its performance. Now do we want to talk about price and reliability anymore? FWIW Bob

 

[Steve_S]

I don't know anyone who has ever paid 3 grand for an overdrive box. Moss blew out the early ones a couple years ago for $1400 because they couldn't sell them at their normal price. In the past five years I've bought 3 D-Type early OD gearboxes, and I didn't pay over $250 for any of them. A rebuild by quantum costs about $800 plus shipping. So the total is about $1100 for a ready to bolt in gearbox that will last a decade of regular driving. Maybe I just got lucky but even without finding a good deal you're looking at only about $500 for a used OD box, plus rebuild.

As for the vacuum switch, they are not necessary and 95% of the early cars on the road don't have one installed. It's a non-issue.

Yes, the 5-speed is a modern component that will require less maintenance. But the period gearbox offers a real vintage motoring experience and is quite robust. I'm putting 200+ HP into an LH overdrive with no issues whatsoever. I have 50,000 miles on another LH and it's still perfect. I don't buy the whole unreliability thing.

For those that want modern parts and don't mind the change in driving experience while winding through a canyon road, the 5-speed is great. For those who like their old cars to feel like old cars, an overdrive box is the way to go. Different folks, different strokes. Both are good choices for different reasons.

 

[bob67bgt]

Steve, I just got a quote for a rebuilt O/D unit only...And it was for a late MGB box. It was $875. so first you have to find one(early ones are harder to locate) then the early 3 syncro boxes are bad about having bad syncros, bad first and laygears,layshafts and bearings.What would that cost to rebuild on top of the $800 quote? If you can come up with rebuilt 3 syncro overdrives at $1100 that would be amazing. As far as the feel of the 5 speed its just like a old mg 4 speed with a bonus gear! I do not see how that changes the feel of the car. Now you see why i do not normally post on this kind of thread...Bob