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TR2/3/3A 3 or 3a starter

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tinman58

tinman58

Jedi Knight
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I bought my starter from british parts northwest awhile ago (gear reduction)Now the car wont turn over. I have noticed that in the last few weeks that the battery was getting weak. I put a full charge on the battery and still no start. It appears to me that the starter is shot. So I went to the BPNW site and there are two starters that fit the TR. I installed the early "nose cone". I think that I should have gotten the later one for the TR3-4. I am going to pull the starter this morning. Could I have hurt the fly wheel?
 
You might have damaged the ring gear, but IMO it's unlikely the damage is bad enough to merit replacement unless you spent a lot of time with the starter spinning and the engine not turning.

My suggestion would be to inspect it, both for damage and to see which starter you need. If the ring gear is bolted to the flywheel (meaning the ring of bolt holes is visible through the starter hole), you need the later starter. If the ring gear is pressed on (no bolts), you need the earlier starter.

Actually, the only difference in the replacement starters is the size of the pinion gear. Friend of mine made the same mistake, and was able to replace the pinion gear rather than buying a whole new starter.
 
Thank you Randell! I hope that I did not damage the fly wheel. it is the pressed on. It has been altered for the HVDA trans. conversion. Where would I be able to get the replacement gear? or should I just get the correct starter and keep the old one for parts? You can't have enough spare parts laying around.
 
If you have the pressed-on ring gear, then the early TR2-3A starter is the correct one. That means that either you didn't get the starter you ordered (which does happen since they are nearly identical to the later ones) or the problem is something else. IMO you should find the real problem, rather than wasting time and money installing the starter you know is wrong.

Mike got his gear from the same shop that sold him the starter, but I don't recall who that was offhand. It was an "auto electric" type of place, not one of the usual LBC suppliers. You might try contacting BPNW and see if they can help. If not, I'd try Ted Schumacher next, although he won't be particularly happy about fixing someone else's starter.
https://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/

Funny thing is, I thought Herman's kit required switching to the later flywheel. Are you sure your car actually has the early flywheel installed? Or are you just looking at a parts book?
 
Randell I am going from my memory! That can be sketchy. I am going to pull the starter and find out what I have.
 
TR3driver said:
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Funny thing is, I thought Herman's kit required switching to the later flywheel. Are you sure your car actually has the early flywheel installed? Or are you just looking at a parts book?
Click to expand...

When going in a TR2/3, Herman's kit actually requires a flywheel that will accept the diaphragm type clutch (late TR4/4A??) or you have to redrill your original flywheel.
 
Yes I had the fly wheel re drilled at a machine shop. On my way out to the garage now to remove the starter and check the flywheel.
 
martx-5 said:
When going in a TR2/3, Herman's kit actually requires a flywheel that will accept the diaphragm type clutch (late TR4/4A??) or you have to redrill your original flywheel.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification, Art. I forgot about redrilling.

AFAIK, the official change to the diaphragm clutch was with the TR4A introduction. But with parts so readily interchangeable, the only way to be sure is to check (my 56 TR3 also has a diaphragm clutch).
 
Call BPNW, they are great people and will do what is right
 
OK I have the starter out and what do I see stamped on the starter but "TR2" it has 9 teeth on the gear. There is a lot of wear on the teeth for only 7000 miles. I think that a 10 tooth gear is needed.
 
sp53 said:
Hey Randall what modifications did you have to do to get the diaphragm clutch into your 56.
Click to expand...
Well, the aluminum flywheel is what prompted the clutch change, then the starter had to match the flywheel. Only other required change was to shorten the front cover of the transmission a bit (3/8" as I recall), and of course use the throwout bearing and carrier to match the clutch.

If it had been the original 56 gearbox, then using a gear-drive starter would also be required. The early gearboxes didn't have the bulge required to clear the later starter drive. Some folks just cut a hole in the bellhousing to clear the drive, but I don't like that idea ever since I had a bellhousing break. Didn't matter for me, though, since I was already using a late TR6 gearbox that has the bulge (and a much stronger bellhousing). Had to massage the transmission tunnel a bit to clear the bulge, though.

BTW, Dan, 9 teeth is correct for the flywheel with the pressed on ring gear. Still sounds to me like your problem is something else.
 
tinman58 said:
I bought my starter from british parts northwest awhile ago (gear reduction)Now the car wont turn over. I have noticed that in the last few weeks that the battery was getting weak. I put a full charge on the battery and still no start. It appears to me that the starter is shot.
Click to expand...
I'm coming in a bit late here (sorry; I was off reattaching my son's '81 Subaru exhaust to the engine), but I'm not clear on exactly what was or was not happening with the starter. Was it turning at all? slowly? did it sound like it wasn't properly engaging the ring gear?

I ask, as I'm wondering if this might be nothing more than an iffy connection. If, in fact, the starter is spinning quickly as it should, then please ignore me while I slink away and wash the rest of the grease off my hands! :wink:
 
Don't slink away to far!! The starter "grinds" I have checked all the connections and all are good. The starter is bad and with Randal's knowledge I do have the correct starter for the fly wheel. I am going to call BPNW in the morning and get a new one shipped out as soon as possible. The weather is nice today. P.S. Just got back from a ride in a TR6 WOW! real windows!!
 
Bummer, Dan! And you have my sympathy, as my son and I are currently going through a parallel ordeal with his '81 Subaru. Two-month-old "rebuilt" alternator from a local rebuilder occasionally squeals (not a slipping belt) and stops putting out juice. Had the same problems once on a Toyota alternator, so I know there's a true problem with the alternator. The rebuilder apparently agreed and sent another rebuilt to my local NAPA store (my go-between, and they've been fantastic). Tried to fit it to the car only to find it was ALMOST identical, except for the one terminal on the wrong side, and that wrong terminal fouled the intake manifold, preventing fully mounting and adjusting belt tension. My NAPA guy was not happy and is again going to talk to the rebuilder.

Not saying anything here about anyone else, just relaying experience I've had with a rebuilt unit. I'll note that I've also had my share of rebuilt units that gave good service from the moment I installed them and still do so, such as the rebuilt original generator on my '62 Herald!

Good luck; I'm sure it will all be straightened out for you!
 
Andrew Mace said:
Two-month-old "rebuilt" alternator from a local rebuilder occasionally squeals (not a slipping belt) and stops putting out juice.
Click to expand...
Just curious, Andy, did you check that the belt was not slipping <span style="font-weight: bold">when</span> it was squealing? I ask because I once had exactly the same experience on a 80 Chevy. Turned out the rebuilder had supplied the wrong pulley, which was slightly smaller diameter than the original. Apparently that 1/4" or so was just enough that the belt was overloaded when the alternator went to full output near idle and would slip only under those circumstances. Installing the pulley from my old alternator fixed the problem.

Not that you couldn't have a bad alternator, just an alternate theory. We went through a similar set of problems on the wife's Toyota; something like 5 rebuilt alternators each failed within 2 months of installation.

Brings to mind the old Monty Python line : "But the fourth one stayed up! And that's what you're getting, lad, the strongest castle in all England."
 
Fair question, Randall. But no in both instances. In each case, the (serpentine) belt in the Toyota and the (v-type) belt in the Subaru were/are fine and not slipping. In both cases, it happened primarily at idle speed and was cured (in the case of the Subaru, hopefully WILL be cured) with another alternator.
 
61tr3
It is about time that you posted Glen TR6
 
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