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Tips

3 now won't start

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Hmmm - you mention the car ran fine 2 or 3 weeks ago. Was that with the Pertronix?

Your first post on this thread refers to the whole thing starting to go downhill when you began to try to lower the idle speed. Were you at first just trying to "turn the screws and nuts"? And that's when the rough idle started?

Now are you saying it doesn't fire *at all*? What's the voltage you're getting at the plug tip? Also, any possibility the dist is 180 degrees off?

Tom
 
PeterK said:
Now that Dr J has verified the ignition, assume that it's good and move on. I think we need to change focus to fuel, at least for a moment ot two.
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It won't even run on startting fluid. The whole garage smells of fuel and the plugs are wet with fuel.

I think we can safely assume that the engine is getting fuel.

PeterK said:
Also, did John pull the valve cover and check the settings? and verify the TDC at rock?
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I'll return when Ed's new valve cover gasket comes in. I forgot to take one over.

PeterK said:
Is there a ground strap on the engine - look for it at the driver side engine mount bolt to bolt at front cover plate?
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Didn't check, but the starter turns the engine very fast! What's left of my brain feels better today, but everything else is sore.
 
Tom

I've done so much since this whole thing started that it's hard for age withered brain to remember. But, I can say that the last time the really ran was when the pertronix was in it. The longest I have gotten it to run on the points is about 20 seconds. Yes, I was attempting to address the fast idle issue and as I recall I had simple adjusted the jet level a bit, and also check things with a color tune and tried to adjust accordingly. Idle was still high.Then someone suggested I check the timing. Being green I wasn't sure how to do that with the Pertronix. I read some instructions on setting the static using a continuity light probe. So, I got one and poked around under the cap a bit with it before I realized that would not work with the Pertronix. Only other thing I did at that point was blow an air hose on the dist. After that the engine ran rough. The more I tried to straighten things out the worse it got until I ened up here.

Now is that a sob story or what?

We are confident it is not 180 out. How can I measure voltage at the plug tip?
 
Ed - I'm sure as heck no electrical wiz ... but I'd run a volt meter (multi-tester with a HIGH voltage range, around 20K volts) between the end of one plug lead and a ground point. Use an analog (needle on the dial) meter, not a digital meter. When the ignition is on, and the engine is cranking over, the voltage should pretty much match the output of your coil.

What coil are you using? And what output voltage is it supposed to be producing (per spec)? Test each of the four plug leads as above. Use multimeter to test coil output. Compare the readings. That would at least find out what's actually reaching the combustion chamber to ignite the mixture.

You say the engine will actually fire for up to 20 seconds. Have you pulled a plug lead and verified that the spark will continue for a full minute or so? Just wondered if the spark (or coil?) is losing oomph (technical term ...), the longer the engine cranks.

Onward through the fog!

Tom
 
I can send down a complete rebuilt distributor if that might help get this thing going. I'm out of suggestions other than to start swapping out parts at this point.

SHouldn't smell of gas, maybe stuck float, dirty needle valves/grose jet sticking?
 
PeterK
Thanks so much for the offer to send down the distributor. I just may take you up on that. Does it makes sense to you as the logical culprit then?
I'm just trying to get some sort of game plan that I can use to one by one eliminate the possabilities. I feel that I have been a bit scattered. I have tried a number of things that, who knows, may have made things worse instead of better.

For example, you, along with one or two others, have mentioned the possible float problem. With the carbs I had taken the dash pots off, cleaned them, verified that the needles looked ok and that shoulder was positioned per the manual, removed the jets, cleaned and centered (I think). I have not as yet checked the floats. I can rechecked everything again and also check the floats and float needle valves. Could stuck floats totally prevent the car from starting? Wouldn't continueing to grind the starter and not have the engine fore just continue to pump gas in anyway?
 
Hmmmm. Just checked my oil level. Either the oil gremlins are multplying in there or I've pumped a lot of gas in.
 
ED. I had an MGB in my shop that guit running. Points were fried. Car started and then quit. Would not start to save my life, Pulled plugs, points,ect. I took an air hose to each cly until they were dry. Preesto it started up. If you have that much fuel in your engine, Dry it out. I still had to hold the thottle to the floor after running air in the cyl's.
 
PROGRESS!!!!!!!!!!! This morning I nessed around with the dist, cap, wires and general stuff (if anyone really wants to know the specifics I can go through)

I verified that I was getting voltage with points open, no voltage closed. Reset the timing using that technique. sprayed some starter fluid in the carbs, crossed all fingers and toes and hit the starter. SUCCESS.\! fired up then died in 10 seconds. repeated the process 2 more times and got it to actually idle. I am now back to the point I was before. That is, it will run, but obviously really rich. Rough running, occassional back fire, sounds like it's hunting. Could this all be from rich running? Am I now back to the carbs???

Feeling a little better
Ed
 
Im glad to hear you got it at least running,
Now sort out the rich mixture problem and most likely you got er licked.
Kerry
 
Well that is great progress and I'm glad to hear it! Congratulations! And congratulations on getting out of doing that house and yard work!
 
Twosheds said:
And congratulations on getting out of doing that house and yard work!
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HA! Fat chance! I've spent the last 6 hours clening our back yard pond ( or so we call it)! Nasty job but at least it's done. Good news is 3 of the 5 fish survived the winter.

Hopefully can mess with the carbs tomorrow morning and maybe build on today's success.
 
Hi Ed I would check that a small piece of sand or perhaps a small piece of old rubber fuel line is not in the seat of the needle and holding the fuel delivery system open. Pop off the top off the float bowls and gently blow them out after you have dropped out the needles.
Sp53
 
Just checked in on this thread. I seem to remember a similar problem after my TR3 had sat for a long time. It turned out to be the inline fuel filter tnat I had installed between the gas tank and the electric fuel pump(I had swapped out the mechanical pump and blanked it off). I put fresh gas in the tank and was getting fuel to the carbs when I pulled the line and tested for flow. After a lot of ignition and carb tests I finally pulled the plastic fuel filter and it was blocked with yellow powder from the bad gas!I guess enough gas was getting thru enough for hesitant starts but not enough to get the engine to run. Another possibility is the fuel bowl grommets. A friend with a 3 went thru what you are and he claims that there was a bad batch of the rubber fuel bowl grommets made of a soft rubber compound that tended to swell just enough to block the fuel flow. He shaved his down with an exacto knife and that solved the problem. I just looked up the grommets in the Moss catalogue and it says they are now made of Viton?..... hmmmn maybe others had this issue and they had to upgrade to grommets that didnt swell? Karl
 
Sp53 and Karl, thanks for checking in. Yup, the float bowls will comm apart in the morning. Thought that I would also go through the jet centering process AGAIN. Karl are you also refering to the float bowls, or the fuel pump bowl? I am running the mechanical pump. Before this problem cropped up I had a leak from the pump bowl. Replaced the gasket which took care of that particular problem.
 
I'm referring to the float bowl grommets that look like a "top hat". If you look at the blow up diagram of the SU's on the Moss site you'll get a better visual of them. Some SU's on our cars had the bolt method holding the float bowl on where others had the stud type. If you take the the bolt or stud off you'll see that it wouldnt take much of the rubber grommet to swell to block the fuel flow.
 
I've been following your progress for some time and just went through about the same confusing situtation as your going through. Mine turned out to be a semi-blocked fuel line, which I truly don't feel is your problem. I just about rebuilt or replaced all the engine electrical and carburation before I finally found the problem. Several times I flooded out the plugs with raw fuel and the engine would run rough, back fire and hunt for and idle. At that point, I finally bought new plugs. The old ones were newer and I tried cleaning them several times when they got wet with fuel and it helped, but when I bought and installed the new plugs, the engine smoothed out considerably. Very cheap insurance. I don't think new plugs will solve the whole problem, but it might get you closer to solve it.
 
Hi Ed I think you might have mention the problem when you said, “I put a new gasket on the fuel pump.” Perhaps a small piece of the old fuel pump gasket has moved up into the float bowl and is holding the needle open.
Sp53
 
Ed,

Good going!

To get a good starting point on the rich running, turn in the jet adjusting nuts all the way in, counting the number of flats (each nut has 8 flat edges). Then back each one out 12 flats. This is only a starting point. Then mark the flat of each nut at the same place on each carb with a dab of paint for your reference.Now turn in each carb nut, counting the number of flats you turn it in) until the carb leans out. The procedure for checking involves lifting the piston lifting pin and listening to rpm increase or decreases. This gives you an indication of lean or rich. I don't have my cheat sheet handy and don't remember which is which but someone will chime in with the detail. Between each test lift, rev the engine and let it settle back down to idle rpm.

I hate to tell you this but to tune the carbs, it is assumed that the dwell and timing are correct and that the engine is up to operating temperature. So you might want to continue with the timing first. I would turn the advance knob on your distributor a couple of marks towards advance. I only suggest this because 1) your car is still popping a little (indicated retarded advance) and 2) a retarded timing can cause a rich running condition. Use a timing light an observe the hash marks that the previous owner put on the pulley as your car idles and also as you increase the rpm. If the marks don't move as you increase the rpm, your vacuum advance isn't working - could be perforated, corroded, or just crapped up where it attaches to the distributor. If the advance knob doesn't make a difference, mark the distributor position on the clamp and turn it just a tad. Then use your timing light to verify your change.

Also, if you need, I can scan a cheat sheet for timing and carb adjustment and email it to you. Just remember, now that it's finally running, to mark the currect settings before making any change. And if the change makes no difference, put it back.

Keep us informed. Everybody wants to see you car haul. The TR3 is alot of fun to drive and hauls butt when you get it tuned correctly.
 
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