1959 3000 Clutch not engaging

[RonR]

Folks,

The clutch on my Healey does not seem to engage.

I pulled out of my garage and everything was fine. The car died while waiting for the garage door to close. When I restarted it and put it back in gear, the car would not move in any gear. I can shift into all gears with the engine running. Under car observations verify that the slave cylinder is working and the rod moves at least 5/8 inch.

With the car on jack stands, I started the engine and let the clutch out in all gears. The rear tires only turn when the transmission is in 4th gear, and they do not seem to be turning very fast. Putting on the brakes with the transmission in 4th gear and the engine running does not reduce the rpm at all.

The clutch can and pressure plate have around 22,000 miles on them. I can’t believe anything is worn out with such low miles, especially when things stopped working all of a sudden.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Ron

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Obviously, clutch is slipping. Could be: defective (fast-wearing) clutch disk or flywheel, or excessive oil on clutch. Did you have the flywheel resurfaced when you installed the last clutch? Did you replace (preferably) or resurface the pressure plate?

 

[RonR]

I disconnected the slave cylinder from the clutch fork, which indeed verified it is not a hydraulic problem.
I did repalce the pressure plate and throw-out bearing when the clutch was replaced. They are all NOS, purchased from a BMC dealer in the 1970s.

Once I remove the transmission, it will be interested to discover what happened since it was not a gradually occurring problem like one would expect from a clutch that was wearing out.

The engine has a Dennis Welch rear main seal and I now wonder if it failed and the clutch disc is saturated with oil. But that still would not explain the sudden problem.

 

[Jim 58 BN6]

I disconnected the slave cylinder from the clutch fork, which indeed verified it is not a hydraulic problem.
I did repalce the pressure plate and throw-out bearing when the clutch was replaced. They are all NOS, purchased from a BMC dealer in the 1970s.

Once I remove the transmission, it will be interested to discover what happened since it was not a gradually occurring problem like one would expect from a clutch that was wearing out.

The engine has a Dennis Welch rear main seal and I now wonder if it failed and the clutch disc is saturated with oil. But that still would not explain the sudden problem.

My guess is that if you had an oil leak bad enough to affect the clutch plate, it would be really obvious (in terms of the amount of oil on the ground). Maybe the pressure plate just gave up, and won't hold the disk against the flywheel. That could happen quickly (??).

Good Luck.

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

I've seen similar problem as you described where the clutch flex hose colapsed internally and would not allow the clutch slave to return to its normal position. The mechanic working on the Healey rebuilt both master and slave and was going to do it again even after I told him the hose could be the problem.

 

[RonR]

Patrick, as stated earlier, with the slave cylinder push rod disconnected from the fork, and then starting the car in gear, the real wheels still do not turn. So it is not a hydraulic problem
The clutch fork has the correct amount of free play (in and out) when disconnected from the slave cylinder push rod.

I will pull the transmission in a week or so.

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Patrick, as stated earlier, with the slave cylinder push rod disconnected from the fork, and then starting the car in gear, the real wheels still do not turn. So it is not a hydraulic problem
The clutch fork has the correct amount of free play (in and out) when disconnected from the slave cylinder push rod.

I will pull the transmission in a week or so.

I missed that. Thanks

 

[Bob Claffie]

Everyone else has there own wild guess, here's mine. The throw out bearing has self destructed and a piece of the bearing has jammed the pressure plate in the released position. (Which at any moment could fall out and become instantly engaged).

 

[RonR]

I hope to have the transmission removed by Monday, February 6, and will report back.

 

[RonR]

I pulled the transmission the other night.

There is nothing obvious wrong with the clutch or pressure plate.
The clutch disc is more than thick enough to clear the rivets on both sides.
One of the small springs for the release levels on the pressure plate was slightly bent and not fully engaged, but I don’t think that would have caused the instant problem of the clutch not engaging when the clutch pedal returns.
The release (throw-out) bearing looked great.
The flywheel is quite smooth, and probably should be resurfaced.

I was thinking that perhaps the problem is in the rear axle. With the car on jack stands, turning the differential does not turn either rear wheel. Turning the driver’s side rear wheel turns the differential. However, turning the passenger side wheel does not turn the differential.

The differential was rebuilt in September 2006 by Healey Surgeons

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Ron

 

[red57]

Sounds to me like the passenger side axle broke. If you clamp the driveshaft flange so it can't turn, then turn a wheel, the other wheel should turn at the same speed but in the opposite direction (assuming you don't have a locked or limited slip diff).
They do break, I know 'cause I broke one several years ago...

 

[Deleted member 8987]

When you had it up on stands and checked the wheels for turning, next thing you do is look at the driveshaft.
Or simply observe the speedometer.
Driveshaft spinning, rear wheels not, differential or axle shafts.
Driveshaft not spinning clutch or transmission component broken...like input shaft or output shaft.
While it's apart, see if the center hub on the disc has broken loose. Seen that...twice in 50 years.

It is ALWAY a good idea and proper troubleshooting to obtain all the information and data available before surgery. Going back to the place you were to re-test one item is a lot of fooling around unnecessarily.

Measure twice, cut once.

 

[RonR]

It does sound like the passenger side axle is broken. I am heading out to remove it now.
The next question will be, if it is broken, do I replace both 57 year old shafts or just the broken one?

 

[John Turney]

Unless you're racing, you only need to replace the broken one.

 

[RonR]

New axles ordered

 

[red57]

Thanks for posting the picture. I had forgotten that I broke two, and one is very similar to yours - on one the break is 3 3/4" from the flange. The other one broke in the radius at the flange. I don't really know how common it is but I know of at least a couple of others.

BTW, I don't know if you have retrieved the rest of the axle yet but a trick I was shown at the racetrack when I broke the first one is to use copper wire (household wiring) and make a loop 'noose' bent 90 degrees from the wire just big enough to slip over the broken end. Push it on an inch or so and then push on the loop opposite the wire 'handle' with a screwdriver and simultaneously pull on the wire 'handle' until it clinches onto the axle & then you can pull it out.

I tried to post pictures but but they upload failed.

Dave

 

[RonR]

Dave, I managed to get it out by lifting it into position with a small thin screewdriver and pulling it out with a maganet.
Your approach probably would have taken me a lot less time.

Ron

 

[Deleted member 8987]

Coat hanger if appropriate cooper wire not available. Done LOTS that way.
Now.
Get yourself a magnet on a wand...longer the better...and drag it through the oil on the bottom of the tube, all the way from diff to the end.
You never know how many little bits came off that break, even if you think nothing did.
Last thing you need is for those bits to damage diff bearings or gears.
BTDT.