1955 BN2 Austin Healey 100 Questions

[judow]

Hi d. Bob is correct and some of us 100M owners do get a tad persnickety about 'name calling.' Your BN2 is correctly referred to as a 100 with LeMans modifications. In any event, you appear to be very fastidious in your restroation and I for one commend you.

 

[d_valentino]

I'm being persnickety here--and I'll probably get slammed for saying this--but you can't really 'convert' a standard BN2 to a 100M. From the 2008 Austin-Healey Resource Book:

"... the only cars properly called '100M' were those that were modified to 100M specification at the Donald Healey Motor Company (DHMCo) in Warwick 1955-1956, then sold new as the 100M model."

There were probably 1159 100Ms built, and 640 are 'certified' due to having been built and delivered with a louvered bonnet.

This still gets debated sometimes, but most have agreed that a standard BN1 or BN2 modified to the LeMans specs is most properly called "100 with LeMans modifications" or simply "100LeMans."

It's your car, call it what you want but it won't be a 100M.

Well, I'm not trying to pass it off as an M. It's like calling a 100 a 100-4, so when I say 100M, most people know what's going to be done to the car. I have this vintage race car theme I'm trying to keep with my cars... it works for me. With the Sprite, most people do not consider that a sportscar, plus there were a lot of things that were made for the car back in the day to make it a vintage race car... the 100, not so many. So the only thing that you can do to the 100 without it being biaspheme is the LeMans conversion. Although I would like to find a Darrington exhaust for it. Actually, You could do the conversion from the Concours guidelines. Once you know what should be in the kit the guidelines gives you details that the kit does not, like the fact that the dip stick on the M is painted red.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

I don't get your reasoning, you're saying it's OK to call an Austin-Healey 100 a "100-4," even though there never was an Austin-Healey "100-4?" The qualifications for a car being a 100M are quite well documented--no qualifications, no 100M.

Anyone with the knowledge would assume a car called a "100M" had the proper provenance, and would assume a "100LeMans" is a standard BN1 or BN2 modified to LeMans specifications (as is your car). This has been hashed about quite a bit and is now convention.

Owners of actual 100Ms are fussy about this, because these cars generally are valued at a premium and have been counterfeited. There is at least one known instance where a fraudster bought blocks of VIN certs from the BMIHT, looking for the valued clause "genuine 100M as it was delivered with louvred (sic) bonnet," so that he could recreate and sell this car(s) at a premium to standard 100s (I believe this "restorer" was sued and/or prosecuted). This is also the main reason Bill Meade started the 100M Registry, to help prevent 100Ms being duplicated and sold to the unsuspecting.

Like I said, it's your car, call it what you want, but if your were to advertise and sell it as a "100M" to an unknowing buyer--there are plenty--you might well be liable for fraud. IMO, your insisting on calling your car a "100M" borders on impropriety.

 

[d_valentino]

Bob, I'm not saying it's okay to call a 100 a 100-4, people do and who said anything about selling the car? Don't get your panties twisted. The car is registered with Bill Meade as a LeMans conversion and I'm not trying to say that it is an M. Just using the M as reference just like people call it a 100-4 as to not be confused by the 100-6. Don't read more into it an it is.

 

[longbridgehealey]

Hi, That's a great looking Bugeye! I think folks might be reacting to your signature line on the posts, which lists:

1955 BN2 Austin Healey 100M

Larry

 

[Bob_Spidell]

re: "I'm not trying to say that it is an M"

Yes, you are. See above and "It's a 1955 BN2 that I'm going to convert to a 100M" (from your first post).

You cannot "convert" a BN2 to a 100M. Period. You can convert a standard BN2 to a "100 with LeMans modifications." I don't understand why anyone who is obviously a proficient and meticulous restorer would want to misrepresent his car. If, for instance, you were to sell the car as a 100M--and maybe even if you didn't sell as a 100M--and the buyer felt duped and decided to sue he could cite your signature as evidence that you misrepresented the car (don't kid yourself--your postings will be archived and available on search engines--e.g. Google--for a long time).

If you really did register your car as a "LeMans convertion (sic)," you clearly know the difference; why are listing a "100M" on your signature?

BTW, I wear boxer shorts.

 

[judow]

D, I think you're being a hard-head. Bob is absolutely correct and I can assure you that Bill Meade would not appreciate your reference to 100M in spite of your registering it as a conversion. Your vehicle is a 1955 BN-2 100 with LeMans modification. Your calling it a 100M ruffles my feathers as a genuine 100M owner. BTW this lady wears panties and indeed they are twisted over this subject.

I really don't want to get into a war over this but surely you can understand now that your reference to your Healey is misleading and you really need to give those of us who have genuine 100M's the respect we deserve. This would be the moral if not legal thing to do.

Perhaps a definitive opinion by Bill Meade would cause you to rethink your position.

 

[d_valentino]

I changed the signature line as to not offend anyone. Wow you guys are a little uptight!

 

[judow]

and best of luck in your restoration. If it turns out anything like your Sprite it will certainly be a restoration to be proud of.

P.S. It would seem we are a LOT UPTIGHT. Some of us and that might well be the majority are very protective of our LBC's.

 

[glemon]

I agree, referring to the cars as 100-4 and 100M is shorthand, especially if you don't know your audience, I owned a 100 for a while, sorry if it offends but I often referred to it, I know the correct term was 100 and 100/6, but not evryone does, and for those that know less it saves the trouble of the next question "4 or 6?"

I knew what d valentino meant when he said he was coverting it to M spec, or Le Mans spec if you really prefer, I don't see what all the fuss is about, he stated as much and quite frankly sometimes I think the people that like to make a fuss about it sort of want to show off that they know more about Healeys or british cars or whatever, am totally against a car being misrepresented in a sale, but using shorthand references to convey meaning, especially when you don't know your audience isn't really something to get worked up about, having said that maybe getting worked up about people getting worked up about it is just as silly.....


Great looking Sprite, think I have seen it in a couple classic car mags?

 

[judow]

" ... and quite frankly sometimes I think the people that like to make a fuss about it sort of want to show off that they know more about Healeys or british cars or whatever" - Not true, at least in my case. I do know my Healey but certainly don't hold myself out as a 'show-off.' I am just proud that I own a factory certified 100M and therefore I tend to be protective of the nomenclature. I think perhaps d's former signature on his posts is what a few of us found offensive. And "... isn't really something to get worked up about, having said that maybe getting worked up about people getting worked up about it is just as silly" I enjoy your sense of humor.

This is my 100M named Agatha A Healey.

 

[judow]

just kidding. Here's the real Agatha A Healey. (Actually I posted a wrong photo and didn't know how to unpost it...Drats!)

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

I once owned a 100 with Lemans modifications. It had everything, camshaft, distributor, cold-air box, louvered hood & strap and name plate!!
I referred to it as having Lemans modifications, Lemans kit, etc.
I can understand why some "factory M's" owners are protective, but until a universally acceptable alternative name is come up with then people will always refer to the Lemans cars as what feels acceptable to them.

Perhaps the Factory M car owners can come up with an acceptable name for the owners with the Lemans modifications kit cars and then the non-factory Lemans cars owners can come up with an acceptable name for the factory cars? This way, both groups would be respectful of each other.
Patrick

 

[Michael Oritt]

Yeah, we are a touchy bunch. And I, being the proud owner of a 100 LeMans (converted by the first owner in about 1956), am deeply hurt and insulted that you would not want to proudly and loudly cry out to the world that your car is a LeMans. I mean are you ashamed of this monicker or something? Is this some perverse kind of Frankophobia left over from the Freedom Fries debacle? Geesh!

What's more I'd venture a bet there are more 100's improperly passed off as M's then are properly identified as LeMans conversions, so perhaps you are missing out on membership in a rather exclusive subset.

 

[Keoke]

Hey Patrick! maybe what we should do is just get em all acopy of "Shakespear"---Keoke-- :laugh:

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Greg,

If d_valentino wrote that he was "converting a BN2 to LeMans spec" I wouldn't have had a problem. This is what he wrote: "It's a 1955 BN2 that I'm going to convert to a 100M." No "spec" or "LeMans" anywhere.

FWIW, my Dad and I are restoring a 100M and from what I've seen of d_valentino's work ours will not be as nice as his car, and probably not as quick or fast. But, it will be a 100M with absolutely every original part that could be used put back in it's original location (what a mishmash of bolts!). And I'll no more sell my legacy with my father than cut off my clutch foot, so it's not about getting more money for a 100M.

I don't think we're uptight, I think some of us are nuts about Austin-Healeys and believe correctness shows respect for the marque and the unique individuals who created them.

Bob

 

[glemon]

I do approciate wanting to protect the integrity and understanding of the various flavors the AHs came in when new--or at least newish, thanks for catching a little humor in the posting, I think they are all pretty cool cars no matter what you call them, regards, Greg

 

[Bob_Spidell]

From Patrick:

"Perhaps the Factory M car owners can come up with an acceptable name for the owners with the Lemans modifications kit cars and then the non-factory Lemans cars owners can come up with an acceptable name for the factory cars? This way, both groups would be respectful of each other."

The consensus for years has been the factory modified cars originally sold as 100Ms are "100Ms," cars otherwise fitted the the LeMans modifications are "100 with LeMans modifications" or simply "100LeMans" (doesn't matter if the kits were fitted aftermarket at DHMC, a dealer or by an individual). I believe Bill Meade and most if not all of the concours experts agree on this.

There are 640 "100Ms" documented with the louvred bonnet, but probably another 519 cars--give or take--that are in all respects 100Ms but weren't documented. I believe the change came when DHMC began to get modified bodies directly from Jensen instead of pulling cars off the line and sending them to Jensen for the mods.

I don't have the pink slip here to check, but I believe our car has been continuously registered in California and the registration indicates the car is an "Austin-Healey 100M."

 

[d_valentino]

I agree, referring to the cars as 100-4 and 100M is shorthand, especially if you don't know your audience, I owned a 100 for a while, sorry if it offends but I often referred to it, I know the correct term was 100 and 100/6, but not evryone does, and for those that know less it saves the trouble of the next question "4 or 6?"

I knew what d valentino meant when he said he was coverting it to M spec, or Le Mans spec if you really prefer, I don't see what all the fuss is about, he stated as much and quite frankly sometimes I think the people that like to make a fuss about it sort of want to show off that they know more about Healeys or british cars or whatever, am totally against a car being misrepresented in a sale, but using shorthand references to convey meaning, especially when you don't know your audience isn't really something to get worked up about, having said that maybe getting worked up about people getting worked up about it is just as silly.....


Great looking Sprite, think I have seen it in a couple classic car mags?

Thank You!!!

If Donald Healey had his way, I believe no car would have been a "Factory M". He thought every 100 should have the "LeMans Modification Kit" bought by his company. They had to produce some "M" cars so that the public would want to buy the kit. He did not really care about these cars, it was a business, plain and simple. He wanted money to fund what he really loved to do and that was race. He only received a royalty check for each car but the company made all the money from the kit. I wouldn't read more into it then it really is. I restore my cars for myself to enjoy and to say that I would only restore a car to sell it off as a "Factory M" or to say I have to respect someone for the type of car they drive... Please!

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Agreed. Donald Healey was a marketing guru, a Steve Jobs of his day. Geoff, Roger, Jerry, etc. were the mechanical and engineering craftsmen behind the Healeys.

Be that as it may, 100Ms were produced--modified, if you prefer--at the DHMC factory and thus carry special provenance. If Donald had had his way, there would have been no 6-cylinder Austin-Healeys--I'd miss my BJ8 --so the 'what ifs' are interesting but immaterial.