100M - The Most Overvalued Healey?

[HealeyRick]

At the risk of being the skunk at the picnic (all right, I drive a Nasty Boy, I'm used to being Peppy Le Pew)but is the premium for a 100M a little extreme?. If it takes a CSI investigation to determine a factory M from a later-installed LeMans kit, to something I just built up in my garage last night with all the right parts, is it really worth another $50-75k on the selling price? Discuss.

Full disclosure, I passed up a solid "M" in 1985 for $5,500 and have been kicking myself ever since.

 

[Editor_Reid]

The market determines value. Opinions don't translate to $$$.

They are rare (640 made and only about 170-180, I believe, now accounted for) and that means a lot. There are ways to determine their legitimacy. Bill Meade, the guy who founded and operates the 100M Le Mans Registry, has even published a 100M recognition guide.

Rare, desirable, expensive cars are often the subject of forgeries. It's no different for the 100M.

It gets tricky when you find a 100M (or apparent 100M) that was fiddled with way back when they were not yet valued so much by the market. Components got changed and all kinds of swaps took place. It hurts the value tremendously.

I know a guy who dropped a 289 into a Healey 100 way back in the 70s, and then later, after the production records were discovered in the mid-1980s, found out that the car was a 100M. Of course, now it's worth a very small fraction of what it would be worth if it were all still intact, the original drive train is long gone. Of course, it is faster than a stock 100M, but at what a cost!

 

[HealeyRick]

Reid,

I'm being the devil's advocate, here. But the only thing that makes an "M" more valuable than a 100 with the LeMans kit installed is the fact that it that it was breathed on by the boffins at the Cape. I know the market establishes value, but what is it about the "M" that makes it a better car than a 100 with the LeMans kit installed?

 

[Editor_Reid]

I'd refer you to the article above in this forum, "What is (and isn't) a 100M"

The Le Mans Engine Modification Kit did not include the high-compression pistons, larger anti-sway bar, stiffer front shock absorbers, or the louvered bonnet and bonnet strap. It was an aftermarket accessory, not a separate, distinct model sold new as the 100M.

If that doesn't make a difference, then any clone is as good as an original. Except in the marketplace where one is worth a lot of money and the other is worth very little, and universally looked down upon as a copy, a clone, a toy, not an authentic car.

You can build an early 1970s 911 into an identical copy of an RS down to the Carrera graphic on the side, and it will perform just as well as an original, and it will have every part that an original had, but it will not be an original, it will not be an RS. It will look exactly like one, and it will drive and perform exactly like a real one, but it will be a clone worth perhaps 10 percent of what a real one will bring. With Healeys, a Le Mans Kit-equipped car will bring maybe 50 percent of what a real 100M will bring, so in the Healey world the premium is actually far less than for many other cars that are often cloned.

 

[Frankenhealey]

Smoke + mirrors + fashion have always led to inflated prices no matter what the commodity.

 

[GregW]

The market determines value. Opinions don't translate to $$$.

But what <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> "The Market"? If not a bunch of guys with opinions.
Food and water are the only things of true value. Everything else is desire.

 

[WaltCasten]

I would vote for the BJ8 phase 2 as the most overvalued Healey. But I digress.

My opinion is that the 100M is not overvalued as much as the other 4 cylinder Healeys are undervalued. The average new car costs $31,000 these days, for only slightly more than that one can buy a decent 100, for the cost of a loaded-up Honda SUV or mini-van one can get a REALLY nice car. I'm digressing again!

In my opinion, are they worth $50-$75K more than a regular car (meaning 2X), no. I say this for two reasons, one, compared to the total BN2 production (and factory "M"s were all BN2s) they're not <span style="font-style: italic">all that </span>rare. And two, with the exception of the hood, and many standard cars had their hoods louvered to deal with the heat, they are aesthetically identical to the standard car.

What do I attribute the up-charge to? Mostly snob appeal. Let me explain...no matter how you look at it, the Healey Hundred was a milestone car in the sportscar world. Because of this, it will have a long-term wide appeal to enthusiasts, collectors and speculators. A well off, but not 100S filthy rich collector/speculator wants a piece of this milestone but wants to be differentiated from and not have to deal with the standard car riff-raff like myself for instance...100M is the answer!

A lot of this bitter opinion comes from being snobbed by many a Fourintune customer and employee (and up). Although after seeing their display at RA July vintage races this year, they should rename their shop "Sixintune". Digressing yet again!

There are obvious enthusiast exceptions to this opinion.

Sorry for the length of this,
Wally

 

[nevets]

Hmmm, so what's the difference between a first edition of Huckleberry Finn and a recently printed copy...similar paper, same words?

 

[bighealeysource]

Hey y'all,
I think it is partially like Rick said, because the factory 100M was a BN2 produced at Longbridge, trucked over and modified at the Cape factory by the boys at Warwick, it is similar to a 1950's version of a Shelby Mustang GT350 versus a standard Mustang GT from 1965 and 1966. And we all know what the difference in values those two have ! The fact that only 640 were made and now less than 200 still exist - last count I saw from Bill Meade was 175, only add to the exclusivity. Also, as Reid stated, look at the difference in pricing for a "factory" GT350 versus a cloned one that is identical in every way except not touched by the Shelby team in the 60's. The owner or dealer added LeMans kits simply are a clone of the original 640 factory cars. Thank goodness I was lucky enough to find one that was very affordable before the values started going crazy as there would be no way now !
Regards,
Mike

 

[judow]

For what it's worth, I think the argument of the value of the M will continue on and on and on. Maybe because Agatha is a factory certified 100M I am pleased that their value continues to be what it is. Having said this, a big Healey will always be my favorite and a thanks to Mr. Coker whose design is and always will be a cut above the norm. Once you see a Healey you will never mistake it for any other LBC. Geez, you'd think I had a very definite opinion.

(Agatha A Healey is BN2L-228299.)

 

[HEALEYJAG]

Personally I could care less about the "value " of my cars. I own them to drive..whether to work , the bank, play golf etc. Should I ever sell they are worth what some one is willing to pay..no more..no less..


Still have not see an austin healey or e-type on the road in columbus ohio in over 5 years....both marques have active clubs..

These "cars" are not super rare nor super valuable (a friends dino is now worth over 300000...thats real money)

Drive and enjoy boys and girls these cars were made to be driven not parked in the garage!!!

Pete

 

[Editor_Reid]

But what <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> "The Market"? If not a bunch of guys with opinions.

"The market" is what people actually spend to buy them. Those hard figures define the market.

You and I might think it's crazy to spend so much to buy such-and-such a car, but as long as people do spend that much, that's the market, that's what they're worth.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

My father and I are restoring a factory 100M. It has been an enormously challenging project, even though Dad's a former autoshop teacher and has restored many, more common vehicles (we're doing everything ourselves; welding, bodywork, painting, mechanical). My dad's 81 and not in the best of health--suffice it to say this will be our legacy. Through it all, even though we've reused original wherever possible, both for originality and to economize, it has been reassuring to know the car is special--detractors notwithstanding--and, on paper at least, is worth much more than we'll have in it, even though it will never leave our family (at least as long as I'm alive).

 

[bighealeysource]

That is great Bob to be able to do that with your Dad ! Cherish the experience as one of my favorites with my Dad was working on his car after he retired in 1967. We had a blast and still recall that weekend and still miss him after 42 years. What's your car number, mine is 231411 ?
Regards,
Mike

 

[judow]

Pete - Agatha is a driver. Sometimes goes to shows, but definitely a driver. The local WallyWorld, post office, bank, coffee shop, etc. all know her. It was always intended to be a driver and nothing has changed. So, I can't agree with you more about driving these cars.

 

[bighealeysource]

I also agree with Pete and judow - drive mine all the time to the local grocery store, bank, Home Depot, even Wally World in addition to monthly car shows. Love it when people ask me "you drive it and park it at Publix?". Yep, all the time but will admit to finding nice safe parking spots !!! What's the point if you cannot take 'em out and enjoy them.

 

[glemon]

Its worth what people are willing to pay for it, I agree with the guy who called the BJ8 Ph. 2 is the most overvalued (wouldn't turn down a good deal on one though), but that is just my opinion, the market tells me I am wrong too.

The comparison the the Shelby Mustang is a great one, limited numbers, higher performance options, touched by "the man" or at least the man's shop or idea of a better Healey or Mustang, that is what adds value.

I will add that I had a 100 on which I rebuilt the motor to M Spec, their is a noticeable difference in performance, but it is not at all drastic. So I do understand asking the question in terms of "why so much more?" "the car is not that much better than the stock item". But its the mildly tweaked performance, plus the rest of the rarity and cachet as I and so many others have noted that jack up the price.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Mike, Sent you a PM. Bob

 

[60TR3A]

I personally think that the BJ7 is undervalued and the BJ8 overvalued.