TR2/3/3A Need alternator dimensions

[angelfj1]

Can someone help me find a dimensioned drawing for a Remy alternator part #14834 (re-manufactured) or #94623 (new). I have found dozens of companies who make a compatible alternator but no one provides detailed dimensions. This alternator fits Suzuki Samurai and Sidekick 87-95 and Chevy Sprint 85-88

I need the dimensions to fabricate a mount to use this alternator in a TR3A.

Thanks, Frank:joyous:

 

[HerronScott]

Frank, where have you been hiding!

Have you decided to move on from the original generator?

Scott

 

[malbaby]

Sorry, typo error.

 

[angelfj1]

Hello Scott! I've been around, Went to TRA, Solomans Island, MD last month. You know, I'm the only one in Premier Class (previous Best of Show Winner) who does not trailer his car to TRA and VTR nationals. Don't get me wrong. I didn't mention this to brag (although I'm proud of my 3A), nor to denigrate my good friends at TRA and VTR. It's just that I had a very miserable trip coming home in the pouring rain with a DEAD generator AGAIN. :mad-new: That was approximately 220 miles in hard rain (the summer downpour type) with nothing but my battery. But with judicious use of windscreen wipers (just enough to see, maybe once every 30 secs.), I made it back to within 5 miles of home. The engine finally quit and I coasted into a self service gas station. It was amazing (and a little comical) that the timing was so precise. If I had to stop at the last moment before coasting into the station, I would not have had enough momentum to park. As it turned out there were a couple of empty spaces just beyond the entrance and I managed to coast in.

I knew all along that I could run quite a distance on battery because the same thing happened to me on the way back from TRA 2013 in Kentucky. When your solely on battery you need to be careful that you maintain revs because you need less voltage to fire your plugs when the engine is spinning faster. When I got out of the car and after I called my wife to come get me, I got out the digital multimeter and measured the battery voltage. Would you believe 5.7 volts!!!

So, yes, I have come to the conclusion that I'm too old to drive hundreds of miles in a car with charging system designed in the 1930's, and I'll be converting to a negative earth alternator based charging system. I've been looking at the database here and although the Delco 10Si is bullet proof, I think its too chunky looking in a 3A. So, I probably will go with the so called "mini Chevy hot rod" Denso type unit. One version by Remy is part number 14824 (re manufactured), about $70. These put out about 50amps and have a real nice form factor. I'll do the 3-wire version to keep the ignition light.

But first I need some accurate dimensions.

So, stay tuned in. I'll do my best to keep all of you up to date.

 

[GTP1960]

FWIW:
revington TR offers a purest solution to the alternator dilemma.
They call it an" alternator in a dynamo housing"
but it's stupid-high priced $$ ( or ££).
However, maybe there are others out there too.

https://www.revingtontr.com/shop/pr...AP97WCJ9J940PF93LF06CUMB3DF&ProductID=RTR8431

Part # Rtr8431

 

[HerronScott]

Frank,

Sorry to hear you had a generator fail again on you. My experience was different after I starting rebuilding them myself instead of letting the local electrical shop do it. I put over 65,000 miles on the one I rebuilt as a daily driver in my TR4A (was still working when I stopped driving it.

Your experience with driving on batter alone is similar to what happened with my wife's Spitfire. By comparison, I had the alternator in my 2004 Mazda 6 fail a couple of days ago (312,000 miles) when I left work. I made it about 15 miles before the electronics started to flake out due to low voltage (TCS and air bag lights on and speedometer twitching) and I decided to pull over.

Scott

 

[BillyB62]

Picture didn't show up.....

Here are the dimensions for a Delco Remy 94623

Brand - Remy
Item Weight - 8 pounds
Product Dimensions 8.3 x 7.2 x 7.2 inches
Item model number - 94623
Manufacturer Part Number - 94623

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

Frank,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Glad to hear you are driving that perfect car. When I saw it in Texas, I was impressed at how 'original' it was. My TR3 wasn't road ready at that time, but it will never be that perfect, or original. -But I am still running an 'original' generator mostly because I have a box of "good" ones with only minimal issues. So each time mine fails, I pick through the box and cobble another functioning unit together. And, I always carry a spare (generator) in the compartment intended for a tiny spare (tire), along with the tiny spare (tire). The last time my generator failed, I only had a few miles to make it to "Home" (Washington State near Seattle) and I swapped it out in the driveway before heading back to home (Houston, Texas). I refuse to admit my car 'broke down' during our 5,800 mile trip in 10 days, because 1)I didn't have to pull over to repair anything 2)no additional parts or tools were required that I didn't have with me 3)no assistance was required and 4)the schedule (or traffic) was not affected. We didn't have to coast into a parking space, but we are no strangers to that. To us, that's the perfect way to end a trip!

I've been getting about 3,000 to 5,000 miles per 'restored' generator. I don't know why I keep killing them, but when the box is empty, I'll be looking for an alternator too.

Jer

 

[angelfj1]

Thanks Guy, and yes I have considered those "stealth" alternators. There is anecdotal evidence that in the TR2, 3, 4, 4A application that they eventually succumb to the heat caused by close proximity of the exhaust manifold. They are stuffing a lot of heat producing kit inside of a metal cylinder, whereas the original stuffing was intended to be applied in open air. The other issue is the time to resolve complaints, repairs, replacements and cost of shipping, duty, etc.
There are a few companies here in the states producing these units but not one that fits the TR's yet.

Regards, Frank

 

[angelfj1]

Frank,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Glad to hear you are driving that perfect car. When I saw it in Texas, I was impressed at how 'original' it was. My TR3 wasn't road ready at that time, but it will never be that perfect, or original. -But I am still running an 'original' generator mostly because I have a box of "good" ones with only minimal issues. So each time mine fails, I pick through the box and cobble another functioning unit together. And, I always carry a spare (generator) in the compartment intended for a tiny spare (tire), along with the tiny spare (tire). The last time my generator failed, I only had a few miles to make it to "Home" (Washington State near Seattle) and I swapped it out in the driveway before heading back to home (Houston, Texas). I refuse to admit my car 'broke down' during our 5,800 mile trip in 10 days, because 1)I didn't have to pull over to repair anything 2)no additional parts or tools were required that I didn't have with me 3)no assistance was required and 4)the schedule (or traffic) was not affected. We didn't have to coast into a parking space, but we are no strangers to that. To us, that's the perfect way to end a trip!

I've been getting about 3,000 to 5,000 miles per 'restored' generator. I don't know why I keep killing the m, but when the box is empty, I'll be looking for an alternator too.

Jer

Jer, great to hear from you! I'll never forget you stopping to help us outside of Galveston! Please say hello to your wife!:joyous:

Well, I'm impressed that you had such a trouble free experience out to Seattle and back. That is quite a trip! I wish you many more trouble free miles.

You know 3000 - 5000 miles isn't too many miles and you should be getting more. But it could be related to your higher average temperature. Heat is the enemy of auto electrics. When you have had to change out a generator, what happens? Do you get the red light of death? Have you checked out the control box to see if the contacts are shot? What has been the failure mode of the generators? Are you performing an autopsy to see how the genny failed? Scott from VA says that he's rebuilding his own generators. I have to ask him what he does to assure reliability. I wonder if he is actually replacing/rewinding the field or replacing armatures? Scott, if you read this, could you please comment. I would also like to know where you're getting repair parts. I have had Lucas C39's is that what you have? The C40 is almost the same, but has the stepped housing and push on rather than screw type connections. Now that I'm thinking of your club in Houston, wasn't Randy planning to do an alternator conversion on his 3A? Do you know if he did? Hope he replies.

All the best, Frank

 

[angelfj1]

Picture didn't show up.....

Here are the dimensions for a Delco Remy 94623

Brand - Remy
Item Weight - 8 pounds
Product Dimensions 8.3 x 7.2 x 7.2 inches
Item model number - 94623
Manufacturer Part Number - 94623

Thanks Bill!

 

[martx-5]

Picture didn't show up.....

Here are the dimensions for a Delco Remy 94623

Brand - Remy
Item Weight - 8 pounds
Product Dimensions 8.3 x 7.2 x 7.2 inches
Item model number - 94623
Manufacturer Part Number - 94623

I'm sure those dimensions are for the size of the box that the alternator comes in, as the Suzuki alternator is much smaller then that. Even the Delco 10/12SI units that are commonly used as replacements are barely six inches in diameter, and about the same in overall length.

I used to have access to that kind of info on Remy's website, but now that I'm not working for them anymore (retired), I've lost that access. Besides that, Remy just got bought out by Borg-Warner...not that it matters, but the best bet for fabricating any brackets would be to just have the alternator in hand.

 

[TFB]

I'm sure those dimensions are for the size of the box that the alternator comes in, as the Suzuki alternator is much smaller then that. Even the Delco 10/12SI units that are commonly used as replacements are barely six inches in diameter, and about the same in overall length.

I used to have access to that kind of info on Remy's website, but now that I'm not working for them anymore (retired), I've lost that access. Besides that, Remy just got bought out by Borg-Warner...not that it matters, but the best bet for fabricating any brackets would be to just have the alternator in hand.[/QUOTE


I used a Kubota type $70 40 amp that came with the right thin belt pulley,which Im guessing you are not using.It was also a 2 hole mount instead of three as in your picture.I only had to slightly bend the original top brace and shorten and modify the bottom spacer.
Its way easier to if you have the alternator in hand to start to line up pulley etc,so I would recommend you get the alternator,with the pulley,then start to fab.

Have Fun
Tom

 

[angelfj1]

i'm sure those dimensions are for the size of the box that the alternator comes in, as the suzuki alternator is much smaller then that. Even the delco 10/12si units that are commonly used as replacements are barely six inches in diameter, and about the same in overall length.

I used to have access to that kind of info on remy's website, but now that i'm not working for them anymore (retired), i've lost that access. Besides that, remy just got bought out by borg-warner...not that it matters, but the best bet for fabricating any brackets would be to just have the alternator in hand.[/quote


i used a kubota type $70 40 amp that came with the right thin belt pulley,which im guessing you are not using.it was also a 2 hole mount instead of three as in your picture.i only had to slightly bend the original top brace and shorten and modify the bottom spacer.
Its way easier to if you have the alternator in hand to start to line up pulley etc,so i would recommend you get the alternator,with the pulley,then start to fab.

Have fun
tom

I'm not trying to sound cheap, but retired life does impose some financial restrictions.:blush: So, if I buy one, it has to be right. Does anyone know a supplier with a liberal return policy. Usually electrical components are non returnable!

OK, this is what I was able to find, but I can't verify it with another source.

Thanks, Frank

 

[TR4nut]

. Now that I'm thinking of your club in Houston, wasn't Randy planning to do an alternator conversion on his 3A? Do you know if he did? Hope he replies.

Frank!

Great to see you on the forum. I wound up selling off the TR3A hotrod I was building to a fellow club member who will hopefully get it finished off. I did mount a Kubota/Denso style alternator on the engine and it worked great at least for engine run ins but no street time. It sounds like I used the same as Tom from his post. Here's what I went with:
https://www.dbelectrical.com/p-4720-kubota-alternator-16231-64010-16231-64011-16231-64012.aspx

I set it up with a narrow belt, but only because I had a narrow belt setup already - another club friend machined an original pulley for me to work on the alternator so I could use a wide belt but I didn't take it that direction. If you wanted to I think you could, though as the shaft diameter I believe is basically them same.

When the generator on my red 3A dies I will likely put on something similar. On my TR4 I used a Delco 10Si unit and although it is large for a 3A, 6+ years of dependable service made me a definite convert to using an alternator.

Randy

ps. I used this site as a quick reference on hooking up the alternator, it worked well:
https://westfield-world.com/daihatsu_alternator.html

 

[Lukens]

'll add my .o2. I used a Denzo 12185N unit. I wanted to stay with the wide belt because I didn't want to give up my fan. I had to open the bore on the pulley (sheave) to 0.645" to fit the shaft. The shaft wasn't long enough to catch all the threads in the nut so I counterbored the outside face .220" deeper. Then, the pulley rubbed on the alt housing so I placed a .030" shim washer between the pulley and the alt.
The guy that sold me the alternator installed an internal kit the enabled a "one-wire" installation. I'm very satisfied with the set-up.

I also altered the mounting slightly. If you're interested I'll take some pics.

 

[angelfj1]

Lukens, many thanks for the explanation and great photos.

I have a couple of questions.

1. I don't have performance data on these alternators, so you find that the original pulley is driving the alternator fast enough to charge the battery while idling, like at a red light?

2. We were concerned about removing material from the pulley. They are cast iron and at higher speed could come apart. This is why alternator pulleys are usually made from steel or billet aluminum. On the other hand if you continue to use this original pulley it;s spinning no faster than the original generator.

Yes, please do send some photos of the way you mounted the alternator. We were concerned that there would be interference caused by the inner fender.

Thanks again and best regards.

Frank

 

[Lukens]

Frank,
Concerning whether the alt spins fast enough to charge the battery: Yes, under all conditions. I understand it to be a 50 amp alt. I have driving (fog) lights and a pusher fan... never a problem. As for the integrity of the pulley, I believe everything 50 years ago was over engineered. I don't believe the counterboring weakened it at all. Now for mounting. I'm not sure this is the simplest or best method. It's just the way I did it. I should also point out that I did this when the manifolds were off the car.
I started by sawing off the steering column bracket on the drivers side... I'll never use it. This gives a little extra clearance. I found that by cutting an inch off of the adjusting link, I could bet more "swing" out of it.

Here's a pic of the stock "pedestal" (Triumph's word), and the support bracket:

Here's how I altered the pedestal:

I drilled and tapped the threaded end for a 5/16 - 18 bolt. The "big end" was already drilled and tapped to receive the bolt through the lower foremost generator mount, however I did face .100" off this big end to allow for belt alignment. I guessed at .100" thinking that I could add shim washers if it was too much. As it turns out, the pulley on the alternator is right in line with the waterpump pulley.

I didn't use the rear tab on the support bracket. I attached both of the lower ears of the alternator to the front tab of the support bracket. That along with the adjuster bracket provide ample resistance to the alternator twisting.

This is the arrangement I used. The front bolt locks down on the front ear. The rear bolt passes through the rear ear but doesn't pinch it. I only provides alignment

Here's a picture from under the car. It's a little confusing because I added a jam nut to the rear screw to keep it from vibrating out. I didn't run the rear screw so deep in the pedestal that it would "bend" the ear... it's there for alignment only.

Here's the front screw that really locks the alternator in place:

I'm sure there are better ideas, but this worked for me.
Russ

 

[angelfj1]

Russ, this is outstanding!!! Your photos and description are crystal clear and leave no doubt as to the way you achieved this modification. Thank you so much for your help. I hope to report on my conversion soon.

Best regards, Frank :tennis:

 

[Jim_Stevens]

What about keeping the positive ground? Are there any alternators other than the Dynalites that allow this? Jim