Hey - did you know if you click on the title of a thread it will take you to the first unread post since you last visited that thread?
but were afraid to ask: 
STOP!! Never post your email address in open forums. Bots can "harvest" your email! If you must share your email use a Private Message or use the 
smilie in place of the real @
Pretty Please - add it to our Events forum(s) and add to the calendar! >> 
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We knew that was coming. The timing MS uses to "kill" OS is based on how many are out there. 10 on Beta, 7 has to go soon. Quicker than I thought.....
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The whole Micro$hite scheme is a mug's game. Roll out a "new" O/S every few years to generate revenue, tart up DOS and make it appear as if it's somehow better than their last iteration of the GUI. Throw in some obtuse glyphs to represent things that had been known by another name before... "See!?! It's longer, lower, WIDER!" The crowd with those shiny, pricey MCSE's just love it.
And don't even think about getting it (8~8.1) to easily network with a well configured (Class-C) LAN! Ya gotta be part magician and part savant. I have clients with Linux servers you'd have to pry from their cold, dead hands before they'd pay M$ "server-grade" O/S prices and licensing fees to connect multiple workstations to their servers/data. I've assembled and deployed RAID1 to RAID 3 CEntOS Linux server boxes for decades now, some of those boxes have run largely 24/7/365 for as long as ten years. Shutdowns are usually by choice, not caprice. Long power outages not withstanding. We use a five-year EOL scheme to replace 'em but the "old" servers refuse to die, so are run concurrent with their "replacements." Heck, I have one personal box, "Badger-1" here, with a Red Hat (v6.0, IIRC) version of the kernel that HAS to be 1998 vintage. If I fire it up, it just runs. And CEntOS 6.2 is just plain sexy. Stuffed the 64-bit version up th' err... nose... of an AMD six-core on a Gigabyte board and 16G RAM build a few weeks ago and WHOA, BUBBA!!!
"Hold my BEER! Watch THIS!!"
Thing almost ripped my face off.
And don't even think about getting it (8~8.1) to easily network with a well configured (Class-C) LAN! Ya gotta be part magician and part savant. I have clients with Linux servers you'd have to pry from their cold, dead hands before they'd pay M$ "server-grade" O/S prices and licensing fees to connect multiple workstations to their servers/data. I've assembled and deployed RAID1 to RAID 3 CEntOS Linux server boxes for decades now, some of those boxes have run largely 24/7/365 for as long as ten years. Shutdowns are usually by choice, not caprice. Long power outages not withstanding. We use a five-year EOL scheme to replace 'em but the "old" servers refuse to die, so are run concurrent with their "replacements." Heck, I have one personal box, "Badger-1" here, with a Red Hat (v6.0, IIRC) version of the kernel that HAS to be 1998 vintage. If I fire it up, it just runs. And CEntOS 6.2 is just plain sexy. Stuffed the 64-bit version up th' err... nose... of an AMD six-core on a Gigabyte board and 16G RAM build a few weeks ago and WHOA, BUBBA!!!
"Hold my BEER! Watch THIS!!"
Thing almost ripped my face off.
OP
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Hang on. I may have found my answer to 8 e-mail. I have contacted the company..let you know....
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Oh, Thunderbird works....if you want to be uncomfortable.
No right click mark as read, hairball layout, folders on the left you never created and you can't remove, delete and e-mail and immediately it wants to compact folders.
What I'm looking at is OE Classic. So far, looks good.
This is what a page looks like:
https://wind8apps.wind8apps.netdna-...e-classic-pro-outlook-express-alternative.png
You can do the free version, or the paid with more options. On-line, folks were complaining about a couple of things it didn't do, but that was a couple of years ago, and they keep improving it.
No right click mark as read, hairball layout, folders on the left you never created and you can't remove, delete and e-mail and immediately it wants to compact folders.
What I'm looking at is OE Classic. So far, looks good.
This is what a page looks like:
https://wind8apps.wind8apps.netdna-...e-classic-pro-outlook-express-alternative.png
You can do the free version, or the paid with more options. On-line, folks were complaining about a couple of things it didn't do, but that was a couple of years ago, and they keep improving it.
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"Mickey - what problems have you had with Win8? Not "learning curve" stuff - but things that actually don't work.
I know you didn't ask me but this is an issue I have been wrestling with for some time.
Windows 8 is very robust from my experience, it doesn't crash or freeze on my relatively low end computer.
However, the design is just goofy, the neat thing about Windows is that you didn't need to know much of anything but "point and click" and how to read of course, and you had a decent chance of being able to poke around and use it and the programs written for it fairly effectively. Moving to tiles without words and hidden charms and expecting people to know where there are and how they work is a big step backwards. I remember the first time I went to pictures in the Metro interface, as I recall since I didn't have anything loaded I just got a blank screen, huh?
It also seems like each version of Windows makes it harder to get into the guts of the thing and do administrative type changes, like cars they want to drive the computer for you, updates, it just tells me it is time for an update, and the computer will shut off in 15 minutes, no option to update later or postpone as came right up in the notice in prior versions. Maybe I way to get into the system and change this, but why not just give me the option when the warning pops up?
There are some things that are not learning issues, but what I would call design flaws, or at least constant irritants, the "charms" or one, I work from the old interface, not Metro, half the time if I go over to scroll up or down the charms pop up when I don't want them. Worse when I move the cursor across the screen from left to rightish, half the time it kicks me out of what I am doing into something else.
As to mere "learning issues" yes I suppose I could learn how to use Windows again. I have been using PCs and Windows for as long as they have been around, I was probably a bit of a power user at one time, I get tired of having to relearn how everything works every time a new version comes out, they are not making things better, they are making them different so they can say it is new. How would it go over if each time GM or Honda replaced the their Accord or Impala they moved the steering wheel, gas pedal and brake around? Make it faster and more, secure and more reliable, not different for difference's sake. MS is so big they can get away with it, but think about how much productive time has been lost for literally millions of workers either in training for the new version of Windows or Office, or mucking about with the new version trying to do something they knew how to do in literally seconds before. Sure add a few new features with new versions of software, but why move the controls around and change the names of the existing stuff with each new version. Sure the first few years of cars they did move the brake and clutch around, but computers were adopted at a much quicker rate than cars, they are well past the point of being an emerging technology.
I know you didn't ask me but this is an issue I have been wrestling with for some time.
Windows 8 is very robust from my experience, it doesn't crash or freeze on my relatively low end computer.
However, the design is just goofy, the neat thing about Windows is that you didn't need to know much of anything but "point and click" and how to read of course, and you had a decent chance of being able to poke around and use it and the programs written for it fairly effectively. Moving to tiles without words and hidden charms and expecting people to know where there are and how they work is a big step backwards. I remember the first time I went to pictures in the Metro interface, as I recall since I didn't have anything loaded I just got a blank screen, huh?
It also seems like each version of Windows makes it harder to get into the guts of the thing and do administrative type changes, like cars they want to drive the computer for you, updates, it just tells me it is time for an update, and the computer will shut off in 15 minutes, no option to update later or postpone as came right up in the notice in prior versions. Maybe I way to get into the system and change this, but why not just give me the option when the warning pops up?
There are some things that are not learning issues, but what I would call design flaws, or at least constant irritants, the "charms" or one, I work from the old interface, not Metro, half the time if I go over to scroll up or down the charms pop up when I don't want them. Worse when I move the cursor across the screen from left to rightish, half the time it kicks me out of what I am doing into something else.
As to mere "learning issues" yes I suppose I could learn how to use Windows again. I have been using PCs and Windows for as long as they have been around, I was probably a bit of a power user at one time, I get tired of having to relearn how everything works every time a new version comes out, they are not making things better, they are making them different so they can say it is new. How would it go over if each time GM or Honda replaced the their Accord or Impala they moved the steering wheel, gas pedal and brake around? Make it faster and more, secure and more reliable, not different for difference's sake. MS is so big they can get away with it, but think about how much productive time has been lost for literally millions of workers either in training for the new version of Windows or Office, or mucking about with the new version trying to do something they knew how to do in literally seconds before. Sure add a few new features with new versions of software, but why move the controls around and change the names of the existing stuff with each new version. Sure the first few years of cars they did move the brake and clutch around, but computers were adopted at a much quicker rate than cars, they are well past the point of being an emerging technology.
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Possibly depressing thought: how many folks under 30 still use desktops and laptops? Except maybe at work.
I'm betting many younger people just "buy the device for the purpose they want" (social interaction, etc.). Then they just learn the interface.
They're not comparing it to something that existed for over twenty years, like the old graphical user interface of the Mac or Windows machines.
I'm betting many younger people just "buy the device for the purpose they want" (social interaction, etc.). Then they just learn the interface.
They're not comparing it to something that existed for over twenty years, like the old graphical user interface of the Mac or Windows machines.
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Holy Bat Poop. I just loaded OE Classic on the 8.1 laptop.
Have not yet configured it to actually work. Do that later.
But OMG.....the icons for send and receive, delete, things like that are different (trash can for delete, my OE6 has a red "X"), but it looks just like my OE6.
If this works, Thunderbird is going into the recycle bin.
Another poke in the eye with a sharp stick to the MSBS.
Dave
Have not yet configured it to actually work. Do that later.
But OMG.....the icons for send and receive, delete, things like that are different (trash can for delete, my OE6 has a red "X"), but it looks just like my OE6.
If this works, Thunderbird is going into the recycle bin.
Another poke in the eye with a sharp stick to the MSBS.
Dave
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I have now officially re-named my laptop to Windows 8.1.XP.
Gonna put a tag on it so stating.
Gonna put a tag on it so stating.
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I looked at Classic Shell when I started the rework of this MSBS. Asked questions of computer professionals. They recommended, and I use, Start8.
You can even "choose" which icon you want for the start button. I am comfortable with the green rectangle, with the MSBS flag and "start" spelled out.
Warm fuzzies and all that.
Now that I have what looks like Outlook Express back, I am smiling.
I don't think I'm done, but I'm smiling nonetheless.
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https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft...9f89b0c&bhid=22155276551359187550336797510165
Gee... a free upgrade to Windows 10. I think I'll wait a year as they sort out all the conflicts and problems this will surely create. :livid:
Gee... a free upgrade to Windows 10. I think I'll wait a year as they sort out all the conflicts and problems this will surely create. :livid:
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Before I would ever consider using 10, I'd want clarification on what MS can and will do with it.
I have heard that to have 10 you are REQUIRED to have a MS Account, and that your machine stays attached to MS. Possibly part of their continual paranoid ensuring that you have a legitimate copy of Win Doze (like WGA did in XP..every stinking update).
Load my documents on the cloud? Not likely.
Have my e-mails serviced through MS? Again, not likely.
Just another example of Big Brother watching...and maybe, just maybe, trying to circumvent legal issues by Terms of Service license agreements.
I know before I quit doing XP updates, they'd include "new" TOS agreements....just by opening the page you accepted them....which were certainly different than the original XP agreements.
Not to be trusted, folks.
One outfit tells us how to do it without a MS Account:
https://www.baldnerd.com/install-windows-10-without-a-microsoft-account/
But, like Beta 8, where you could make it look and work like 7 with a registry key, how long until MSBS fixes that so you can't?
I have heard that to have 10 you are REQUIRED to have a MS Account, and that your machine stays attached to MS. Possibly part of their continual paranoid ensuring that you have a legitimate copy of Win Doze (like WGA did in XP..every stinking update).
Load my documents on the cloud? Not likely.
Have my e-mails serviced through MS? Again, not likely.
Just another example of Big Brother watching...and maybe, just maybe, trying to circumvent legal issues by Terms of Service license agreements.
I know before I quit doing XP updates, they'd include "new" TOS agreements....just by opening the page you accepted them....which were certainly different than the original XP agreements.
Not to be trusted, folks.
One outfit tells us how to do it without a MS Account:
https://www.baldnerd.com/install-windows-10-without-a-microsoft-account/
But, like Beta 8, where you could make it look and work like 7 with a registry key, how long until MSBS fixes that so you can't?