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TR4/4A TR4/4A hybrids

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TexasPaladin

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In looking around online at the various sites where Triumphs may be found for sale, I occasionally see 4s and 4As with what I think are mismatched fenders, grills, bumpers, turn signals, etc. There is a car for sale BY A DEALER on several sites without any front turn signals; TR4 wings/fenders and 4A grill. I wrote to the selling dealer and the response was, 'I guess someone took off the turn signals.' Is anyone else seeing this kind of thing or am I just confused? Won't the buyer have to fix this and restore the turn signals to have a road-legal car?
 
If someone used a 4A grille on a TR4 then indeed -- there would be no turn signals.

Probably an issue in some states but in Arizona they never look at the car -- you just bring in the signed title of a car you bought and they give you a new AZ title and a registration.

Last car I bought (eBay, out-of-state) I had the title, registration and plates in hand before the car had arrived at my house. Almost scary how easy it was to put almost non-existent car in my name.
 
When I registered my "barn find" TR3, they said it had to have doors & seats to be registered. There were no lights of any kind on the car.

In theory, I think in CA you could get a "fix it" ticket for driving it that way. But the cops around here don't seem to care, much. I got caught out in the rain with no wipers, and all the cop in the car next to me said was "You should get some Rain-X" :D

As far as cars assembled wrong, I don't pay much attention to TR4/4A. But I see a lot of TR3/A/B with wrong parts. Some years ago (before they moved to their present location), Moss even had a 'restored' TR3A sitting in their showroom with the wrong trunk lid on it.
 
At VTR about two years ago, I found a TR4 that really mystified me becasue it was just as this thread described a mismatched bunch of parts from a TR4 and a 4A. I looked at the commission number which is what really got me curious. Finally I ask the owner what was up. He stated that he had the two cars and liked parts from each car so built the car that HE wanted. Made sense to me even though I would not do it that way with body panels. I would with other parts however.
Charley
 
Not certain what I'm not understanding. A TR4A grille has its turn signals in the grille.
 
Ahhh - I think you're right. With a 4A grille and 4 wings perhaps it is the side lamps (aka parking lights) that would be lost.

Of course, at that point what those grille lamps become are up to the person doing the wiring. They could become the side lamps, though one could easily make the 4A single-filament side lamps into dual filament bulbs.

In the end owners can (and some do) most anything.
 
How disappointing! I was expecting to read about a TR with a Prius engine!
 
Sorry to disappoint. I know some folks have done full electric Spitfires; but haven't heard of any gas-electric hybrids.
 
Geo Hahn said:
Ahhh - I think you're right. With a 4A grille and 4 wings perhaps it is the side lamps (aka parking lights) that would be lost.

Of course, at that point what those grille lamps become are up to the person doing the wiring. They could become the side lamps, though one could easily make the 4A single-filament side lamps into dual filament bulbs.

In the end owners can (and some do) most anything.
Click to expand...

Converting the grill lights would be easy but the side fender lights are the little bulbs that push into a socket, no room for dual filament bulbs. When I bought my 66 4A the bulbs in side orange turn signals were removed and the wiring was disconnected because in PA and in the USA side turn signal lamps were not permitted by "lighting" laws. Of course by 1968 side turn signals both front and back were the law. I hooked them up anyway because I liked the added safty they provided. PA State Inspection never challenged me.
 
Years ago when a TR4, 4a and 250 were involved in some type of damage to the body, folks took what they could find in the local junk yards. I have a 4A sitting in storage that has 4 non side light fenders, a 250 hood and early 4 grill in it with 2 MGA wheels on the left side.

Marv
 
JerryVV said:
Converting the grill lights would be easy but the side fender lights are the little bulbs that push into a socket, no room for dual filament bulbs.
Click to expand...
Could still be made to work, if you can find a bulb (or LED) bright enough. Just put a resistor in series for the marker/side light function, and feed direct for turn signals.
 
cool how they put the 4 speed shifter knob on to make it look original and built around the TR7 floor mats with all those spitfire parts.
 
JerryVV said:
yea, well who's going to do that other than you.
Click to expand...
There's at least a few people around that enjoy electrical modifications as well as mechanical ones. Certainly not for everyone, though.

I see where Moss is now offering an LED panel conversion for the stop/tail lights used on later TR3/A (or turn/tail on TR2 and earlier TR3); similar to the one I've been working on. They evidently feel there is a market for it.
 
Marvin Gruber said:
Years ago when a TR4, 4a and 250 were involved in some type of damage to the body, folks took what they could find in the local junk yards. I have a 4A sitting in storage that has 4 non side light fenders, a 250 hood and early 4 grill in it with 2 MGA wheels on the left side.

Marv
Click to expand...

I wonder if that is the case in several cars that I see for sale online. And my apologies for creating confusion; I forget that the turn signals are the large lamps and the small lamps are the 'parking lights.' Four questions: 1) Didn't all the 4s come from the factory with the same lighting/grill/bumper setup and didn't all the 4As come with the same setup (different from the 4s)? A seller says that his car WAS a show car for a previous owner but I see several originality issues that I think a jury would penalize for. I said maybe it got banged up after its modeling career was done and repairs were made with whatever was handy and he is telling me that he sees other 4As with 4 bumpers and 4 wings, so it's no big deal. I don't think he is trying to mislead me, I just don't think he has taken the time to really look. 2) Is it possible to compare the 'value' of two cars in a similar overall condition but very different levels of originality? 3) The seller that I have been talking with is asking an average price for a 'good' car, but isn't a 'good' car an original car? 4) When are you going to have something drivable for sale, Marv?
 
TexasPaladin said:
..questions: 1) Didn't all the 4s come from the factory with the same lighting/grill/bumper setup...
Click to expand...

No. The one variation I am aware of is a change in the turn signals in mid 1964. Early TR4s had glass fixtures identical to those on TR3s (but single filament) whereas late TR4s had a larger plastic lensed fixture like that used on TR4As.

Mine (CT36536) had those big plastic things but they looked awkward as the bosses on the grille were not changed, still a smaller boss the size of the earlier lights. I changed mine to the early style -- possibly acceptable since I think the change point is a bit vague & anyway, I saved the original lights for the next guy.

'Original' means different things to different people. At a minimum I think it should mean 'as original' but really would be better defined as 'all original' (paint, interior, etc).
 
Geo Hahn said:
No. The one variation I am aware of is a change in the turn signals in mid 1964. Early TR4s had glass fixtures identical to those on TR3s (but single filament) whereas late TR4s had a larger plastic lensed fixture like that used on TR4As.

Mine (CT36536) had those big plastic things but they looked awkward as the bosses on the grille were not changed, still a smaller boss the size of the earlier lights. I changed mine to the early style -- possibly acceptable since I think the change point is a bit vague & anyway, I saved the original lights for the next guy...
Click to expand...
It's not so much that the "change point is a bit vague"; rather, it's a matter of North American market cars v. those built for other markets.
 
Geo Hahn said:
'Original' means different things to different people. At a minimum I think it should mean 'as original' but really would be better defined as 'all original' (paint, interior, etc).
Click to expand...

I did the same thing, put in amber lenses up front years ago and never regretted it. Euro style tail lenses in the back too. That's definitely an owners taste thing, but I find it hard to think an owner would like the look of those big plastic lenses unless they were purposely building a car for Concours judging. And anything reversible is fair game I think.
 
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